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Topic: Htr for cera uh60l< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
kdfw
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Posted: Jan. 25 2014,16:29

playing with the cera uh60l profile, based on FredN's blackhawk profile.

this is for the cera's patch 1.

tq     ias
76    0  (takeoff hover)
70   90
80   120
95   145

level flight at 2k pressure alt, gw=18k. fuel consumption=1.2klb/hr.  hover trq=80% at gw=18k, sea, 20degc.

more of a nose down attitude as ias is increased.

the tq/ias response doesn't match the published uh60 data, except at the endpoints.  not sure if it's bad parameters in the profile or limitation of the htr model--not sure htr models drag as function of the hull attitude (faster it flies, more nose down, in turn increases drag).

==important==
do not activate 'htr panel active' in the app, it seems to interfere with the cera hyd system.  in the free flight menu, select the uh60, open the htr app, uncheck 'htr panel active' then press 'ok' to load the aircraft.

==important==
to keep the main rotor animation from stalling during instant replay in fs recorder, the .air file needs to be edited.  change also shows dust up on dirt/grass surface.

this is only valid when used with this htr profile  

back up the UH_60_L.air file and make the following changes:

in the 'main rotor' section
main rotor blade length = 20.9 (was 23.9)
number of main rotor blades=6 (was 6, same)
main rotor effectiveness #1=0.9975 (was 0.75)
main rotor effectiveness #2=2.0 (was 2.5)
main rotor friction=0.000313 (was 0.0313)

in the helicopter fuselage area and drag section:
frontal surface area=18 (was 6)
side surface area=60 (was 40)
top surface area=80 (was 50)
frontal surface drag coeff=0.4 (was 0.35)

===================================
copy-paste the following to a file named "UH_60_L.cfg" and place in dynamics folder:


[Main]
Author= me
Version= 2.5
Title= Cera Blackhawk
Description = UH-60

[Helicopter]
helicopterType= 1
simType = 0
length = 49.10
velocityNeverExceed = 193
emptyWeight = 14284
simEmptyWeight = 14150
maxGrossWeight = 23500
meanAerodynamicChord= 13.5  //13.5
emptyWeightCOG = 0.48

frontArea = 130 //170 //170  //130  //dn drag
sideArea = 465
topArea = 560
landingGearArea = 0.00

frontDragCF =0.72
sideDragCF = 0.8
topDragCF = 0.9


landingType = 1
GroundFrictionCoeff= 0.08
GroundYawFriction = 0.02
GroundRestitutionCoeff = 0.2
maxLandingSpeed = 6
maxLandingAngle = 30

gravityCenterX = -0.0905  //hover attitude ok.
gravityCenterY = 0 //0.1  //0.1051 //0
gravityCenterZ = 3.7 //0.0 //3.7  correct right lean at wow

aeroCenterX = -16.18
aeroCenterY = 0.00
aeroCenterZ = 2.00


momentOfInertiaX = 42000  //31417 left right
momentOfInertiaY = 52000  //57421 front back
momentOfInertiaZ = 74000 // yaw

autoStabilization = 50 //30 //40 //50
dynamicStabilization = 60 //40 //50 //60 //40

numberOfRotors = 2
numberOfEngines= 2
numberOfStabilizers = 2

governorLag = 0.7
cyclicTrim = 1
//pedalTrim=1
pedalsRestPcent= 52  //32 //62 //60  //39=req left pedal in hov
mainRotorHeight = 12
vibrationLevel= 1
maxRotorRPM= 1.1
minRotorRPM = 0.9
mainRotorStallPerc =0.7

[Rotor1]
tailrotor = 0
clockwise = 0
mainRotorInfluence= 0
positionX = 0
positionY = 0
positionZ = 0

rollAngle = 0
pitchAngle= 0

radius = 25.16
minCollective = 0
maxCollective = 16 //18 //20
maxCyclicAngle = 40

ratedRPM = 258
numberOfBlades = 4
NACAProfile= 12
bladeWeight = 214  //190
bladeChord = 1.8  //1.70
bladeLength = 24.4 //26.00
bladeMOI = 1982
bladeLiftCF = 0.12
bladeDragCF = 0.0087 //0.0087   reduce trq
bladeDragCFa =0.0216
bladeDragCFa2 =0.4


flapping = 3
liftAsimmetry  = 0 //0 //2
coning = 0.1

kConstant= 1.15
thrustMultiplier = 0.7 //0.7 //1  trq=80% at sea/20degc/18kgw
autorotationEfficiency = 0.95

[Rotor2]
tailrotor = 1
clockwise = 0
mainRotorInfluence= 0.7
positionX = -32
positionY = 0.04
positionZ = 0.00

rollAngle = 70
pitchAngle= 0


radius = 5.08
minCollective = -10 //-2
maxCollective = 30 //20
maxCyclicAngle = 0

ratedRPM = 1190
numberOfBlades = 4
NACAProfile= 12
bladeWeight = 20
bladeChord = 0.78
bladeLength = 5.08
bladeMOI = 29

bladeLiftCF = 0.12
bladeDragCF = 0.0064
bladeDragCFa = 0.0002
bladeDragCFa2 = 0.4
kConstant= 1.15
thrustMultiplier = 1

[Engine]
engineType = 3
totalEnginePower= 1890
engineTransmissionLoss= 0.03
transmissionMaxPower= 1800
auxSystemsPowerReq= 0.03

[Stabilizer1]
positionX = -29.81
positionY = 0.00
positionZ = 6.15
area = 61.87
DragCF = 1
LiftCF= 0.1
vertical = 0

[Stabilizer2]
positionX = -29.916
positionY = 0.00
positionZ = 5  //4.10
area = 139.90  //106.56
DragCF = 1
LiftCF= 0.00 //0.22
vertical = 1




[Simulation]
goodLandingLimit = 5
angularVelocityDamp = 1
GovernorSensitivity = 100000
RotorPowerSensitivity = 0.2 // 1 //.2
TransverseFlowDisplacement = 0.02 //0.1
VortexRingStateAccelleration= 15
GroundTurbulence = 0.6 //1
mainRotorStallRatio  =0.4


Edited by kdfw on July 08 2014,03:27
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highside7r
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Posted: Jan. 25 2014,23:54

kdfw, are you meaning the torque effect of the HTR in general? RW, part of the SAS/AFCS checks are to make sure the hdg hold works, so no pedal input needed with large collective changes.

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kdfw
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Posted: Jan. 26 2014,02:31

yes.  

if the automatics are able to compensate for large collective changes, then i guess the default fde seems to do its job.

with htr, i'm able to set it up to lift off without pedal input, but for example, dumping the collective at low forward speed does result in the nose slightly yawing left.  

if this is not realistic, then i'll stick with the default fde.

thanks for the inputs.
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kdfw
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Posted: April 18 2014,03:58

spent a little time adjusting the htr model for the blackhawk.

seems to behave better now, and with the .air file edit, the main rotor animation doesn't stop during fs recorder instant replay.

not sure if the automatics on the real blackhawk provide a level deck on the roll axis during cruise by compensating the effect of lift asymmetry.  assumed it would.
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highside7r
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Posted: April 20 2014,15:41

Quote (kdfw @ April 17 2014,21:58)
spent a little time adjusting the htr model for the blackhawk.

seems to behave better now, and with the .air file edit, the main rotor animation doesn't stop during fs recorder instant replay.

not sure if the automatics on the real blackhawk provide a level deck on the roll axis during cruise by compensating the effect of lift asymmetry.  assumed it would.

The AFCS will provide turn coord. (auto pedal input) in turns. The pilot will have to adjust Tq depending on the roll rate and angle of bank. In the previous non-HTR airfile, I noticed as with many FS helos I have to "center the ball".

Good to know about the FSR playback.


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kdfw
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Posted: April 22 2014,03:23

thanks.  this uh60 automatically turns on autocoordination when ias is above 50kts.  this is done in the system gauge file and below about 50kts, autocoordination is forced off.   not sure why they did this, but i guess it gives you more pedal authority when going slow.  

when the uh60 is cruising along, >90kts say, and going straight, is there a slight right roll with slight nose low attitude?  the right roll (bank of about 3-4deg) is observed by the htr model, and i'm guessing that this is needed to counter the translational thrust from the tail rotor and main rotor lift asymmetry pushing it left.
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highside7r
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Posted: April 22 2014,18:59

What they probably failed to incorporate and I doubt one even can is the is the inherit control coupling through the mechanical mixing unit built into the 60. In this case, collective to yaw and collective to roll are working to ease the pilot workload. C-Yaw is helped with electronic coupling through the yaw trim actuator "driven" by the AFCS cpu. Magic numbers here are 0-40kts, max TR mixing, this will taper off as airspeed builds and the cambered fairing is more efficient, similar to the B206 "off-loading" the TR with no mixing above 100kts.

As I've used before, 120kts is the planned cruise and results in both a level pitch(maybe -2* nose down) and bank angle. There is a "fltsim-ism" of the right roll in level cruise flight. I do have a maintenance checklist that has flight control rigging checks (at 100kts, right pedal should be 1-2in forward of the left), not sure if that helps.


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kdfw
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Posted: April 26 2014,00:11

thanks again for the info.  

it seems htr gives me level and pedal-free cruse and left pedal input at hover, or pedal-free hover and right pedal at cruise.

i guess afcs equipped aircraft like the uh60 requires both pedal-free cruise and hover.

if Fred can modify htr to give us an auto pedal trim mode where heading is stablized without any pedal input, then it would better model the uh60...
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highside7r
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Posted: April 26 2014,08:13

kdfw, thats correct the pedals contain micro trim switches one must press while in a hover to turn. During maintenance checks one can pull an armpit full of collective with your feet on the floor and the hdg ref should not change more than 10 degrees. AFCS magic # is 60kts. The hover attitude on the stock airfile looks about right, its missing the slight left wing low.

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kdfw
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Posted: April 30 2014,01:14

updated the profile,  much improved:

1. increased z inertia to slow down yaw when lifting off
2. need to apply some left ped to keep nose from drifting
3. increased tail rotor authority to overcome large z inertia
4. at 120kt cruise, tailrotorrest% set to get level 0 deg bank angle, flies straight, slight nose low attitude. 95% trq gives about 150kts ias.

both autotrim cyclic and pedals checked on.

edit:
profile above changed to give dustoff effects with htr.


Edited by kdfw on May 05 2014,05:13
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oh58mechusa
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Posted: May 16 2014,01:26

kdfw can I get a copy of the updated changes or are the settings in the first post the correct ones.  Thanks!  I am trying to make the Cera Sim 60 a bit more real!

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oh58mechusa
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Posted: May 16 2014,04:17

I like the settings it makes the 60 fly better!  I noticed the edited 5 may under the settings and went with what was up there.  Is there a way to edit fuel burn and my tgt was high on the gauge using the HTR profile but other than that I like settings.  I am going to talk to one of the 60 pilots in our unit to see if 76% at a hover sounds right and the fuel burn seems way off to me but It may not be.  Thanks for the tips sofar!

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kdfw
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Posted: May 17 2014,02:31

5may in the op is the latest version.  

the burn rate of about 20lb/min is what i saw.

regarding the tgt, it should be a function of fat.  at 20degc at sea level, i was able to get about 94% trq and be within tgt limit, at 25degc, could only get 90 trq before hitting tgt limit.

looking at the published charts, not far off, but probably not spot on.  

hover trq (ias=0) of about 82% for gw=18k according to charts.  this can be adjusted.

perhaps highsider can comment.


Edited by kdfw on May 17 2014,14:12
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highside7r
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Posted: July 12 2014,11:57

kdfw, finally had a chance to install your config in v1 with noted airfile adjustments using AirEd. At the standard Cera load, 18k TOGW, I pulled 101% TQ in a hover and well within TGT limiting given a +32 C degrees OAT at sea level (testing scenery in Morocco). Will re-test with ISA conditions set.

Any ideas?


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kdfw
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Posted: July 12 2014,19:08

at 32c, taking the trq >=90% for couple of seconds causes the tgt to climb to red. it then hovers with tgt in red even when trq=75%

seems once trq >= 90% and tgt goes up, it remains high until trq is lowered and held low (min collective) for some short duration.  kind of like it needs to cool off...

looks like tgt ot is triggered by oat and trq.


Edited by kdfw on July 12 2014,19:22
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Silvabaque
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Posted: April 15 2018,15:00

Quote (kdfw @ May 17 2014,02:31)
5may in the op is the latest version.  

the burn rate of about 20lb/min is what i saw.

regarding the tgt, it should be a function of fat.  at 20degc at sea level, i was able to get about 94% trq and be within tgt limit, at 25degc, could only get 90 trq before hitting tgt limit.

looking at the published charts, not far off, but probably not spot on.  

hover trq (ias=0) of about 82% for gw=18k according to charts.  this can be adjusted.

perhaps highsider can comment.

[QUOTE]

What info on htr will I need to manipulate to achieve the following?

1. 900lbs per hr burn rate (15 lbs per min)

2. Hover Tq of 65%
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