HOME | ABOUT | FORUM | FILES | ARTICLES | MULTIPLAYER | FAQ | STORE | GALLERY
Terms of use • Privacy statement  
 


» Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

 

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Topic: Instability even with dirk's autopilot< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Stanley
(HC806ST)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sep. 2016
Posted: Oct. 07 2016,12:30

Hi everyone,

I now have Dirk's autopilot up and running, and it is fabulous.  Previously I couldn't fly helicopters at all, but with the autopilot I have strong control with the helicopters provided by default in Microsoft FSX (the AgustaWestland EH101, the Bell 206B JetRanger, and the Robinson R22 Beta II).  Once in a while I will still lose control of them and experience a crash, but only rarely.

So to expand my horizons, I just purchased two more helicopters from Virtavia -- the CH-47D Chinook and the Ka-50 Black Shark.

Well, even using the autopilot, I cannot even get either helicopter aloft without crashing.  Both helicopters experience tremendous instability right from the beginning.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this, please?  Can I do something to improve stability?

Thank you.

Stanley


--------------
Stanley
Back to top
Profile PM 
PhantomTweak
(HC833PH)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Oct. 2014
Posted: Oct. 08 2016,05:28

1) You shouldn't rely on an AP to fly the birds for you. Learn to do it yourself first, then use the AP for "Pilot Relief". Being able to look at maps, talk on the radio, set nav frequencies, whatever.
2) A lot of payware helicopters have an integral (big word of the week) AFCS (Automatic Flight Control System), which desn't get along well the Dirk's AP sometimes. Check the documentation included with you payware helicopters for info on how  to turn the AGCS on before takeoff. Do not try to use Dirk's AP on a helicopter with built in AFCS systems. AFCS tend to not play well with others... :D   :laugh:
I don't KNOW that this is your problem, it's just one possibility I've read about in these forums a lot...
Pat


--------------
[img]http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums....mg]
Fly high, far, and free. Always!
Pat Bernard
SGT (E5) USMC
Now Inactive Reseerve
10 years of proud service
Chiloquin, Or
Back to top
Profile PM 
Stanley
(HC806ST)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sep. 2016
Posted: Oct. 09 2016,01:44

Hi everyone,

I have now been experimenting quite a bit with my new purchases from Virtavia of the CH-47D Chinook and the Ka-50 Black Shark.  I have been using Dirk's autopilot.  (And PhantomTweak, I will take your statement to heart of trying to fly the helicopters without the autopilot, but for now I have still been using it.)

Well, here is what I have found out.  I do have quite good stability using the 2D cockpit (the one you get when you press F10).  But as soon as I use an outside view -- the view you get when using F11 -- then I lose control.

But that shouldn't be possible, right?  Going from F10 to F11 only changes the view, I thought.  It doesn't change anything else, does it?

Incidentally, if I use the top-down view, then my good stability continues.

Does anyone have an explanation, please?

Thank you.

Stanley


--------------
Stanley
Back to top
Profile PM 
Stanley
(HC806ST)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sep. 2016
Posted: Oct. 09 2016,04:33

Hi everyone,

No, wait.  It is happening with all my helicopters -- even the default helicopter provided with FSX.  When I do an outside view (but not the top-down view), I soon loose control of the aircraft.  When I do an inside view (either F9 or F11), then I have good, if not perfect, stability.

This doesn't make sense, does it?  The view shouldn't affect the helicopter's stability, should it?

Stanley


--------------
Stanley
Back to top
Profile PM 
PhantomTweak
(HC833PH)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Oct. 2014
Posted: Oct. 09 2016,19:17

Quote
The view shouldn't affect the helicopter's stability, should it?

No, it shouldn't BUT: when I try to fly a helo from an outside view I invariably loose it. You just don't have access to the gauges and visual references you need. Helicopters are hard enough to fly even with all that information flowing into your brain. Give it up and it's very difficult.
Not counting RC Model pilots, of course  :p
Just my take on things...
Pat


--------------
[img]http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums....mg]
Fly high, far, and free. Always!
Pat Bernard
SGT (E5) USMC
Now Inactive Reseerve
10 years of proud service
Chiloquin, Or
Back to top
Profile PM 
Stanley
(HC806ST)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sep. 2016
Posted: Oct. 09 2016,19:40

Hi Phantom Tweak,

I understand your answer, but that's not what's going on.

Let's say that I have the inside view, and I am using the autopilot just to hover.  I can just sit there and the helicopter stays completely stationary, or perhaps just a little pitch or a little roll.  Everything remains in control.  I have tested this, and the aircraft will stay in control for minutes.

Then I switch to the outside view, still using the autopilot to hover.  I have not touched any controls at all.  Within about 15 seconds, the helicopter goes out of control.

I don't understand it.

After testing this several times now, I find that the only helicopter to which this does not happen is the Robinson R22 Beta II.  Then I can switch back and forth between inside and outside views without adverse effects.  But that is the only one.

I am stumped.

Stanley


--------------
Stanley
Back to top
Profile PM 
Kyrelel
(HC868KY)
Offline





Group: Student Pilot
Posts: 55
Joined: Nov. 2014
Posted: Oct. 10 2016,00:18

Is there a longer delay when switching views compared to the R22 - if so then that is your answer. You will need to quickly reset the AP after switching.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Stanley
(HC806ST)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sep. 2016
Posted: Oct. 10 2016,00:50

Hi Kyrelel (and PhantomTweak),

First, I don't want to keep bothering you if that is what I am doing.  But I do appreciate your working with me on this.

Second, the point of my last message is that I am not resetting the autopilot.  I am leaving the autopilot on and not touching it.  I am just changing the view from inside to outside.  Almost as soon as I go from the inside to the outside view, almost one of my helicopters goes out of control.  The one exception is the R22.

By the way, does this happen to you?  For the experiment, be on the inside view, set the autopilot to hover and don't touch anything for a minute or two.  Then switch to the outside view -- don't do anything else, just switch to the outside view -- and see whether or not the helicopter goes out of control.

Stanley


--------------
Stanley
Back to top
Profile PM 
PhantomTweak
(HC833PH)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Oct. 2014
Posted: Oct. 10 2016,06:07

I've noticed that sometimes the AP settings switch and/ or change totally (Hover Hold off, for example) when closing the AP window. Say I'm flying along, and want to check that the AP in the particular chopper I'm flying is, for example SHFT+6. I open the pop-up, then close it and suddenly it's trying to turn, go into a hover, whatever. I open it again, and find several settings now active, where it was totally "off" before.
If you have the AP window open when you switch views, could it be doing something like that?
It my just be something unique to my system, but you might want to check it out.
Also, make certain you don't have another key mapped to F11 also. Use the "s" key to switch views. Does it still do it? It's a possibility, anyway...
Pat


--------------
[img]http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums....mg]
Fly high, far, and free. Always!
Pat Bernard
SGT (E5) USMC
Now Inactive Reseerve
10 years of proud service
Chiloquin, Or
Back to top
Profile PM 
Stanley
(HC806ST)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sep. 2016
Posted: Oct. 11 2016,14:05

Hi Pat,

Thank you for your message.

I am experimenting, and I will let you know what I find.

Stanley


--------------
Stanley
Back to top
Profile PM 
Stanley
(HC806ST)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Sep. 2016
Posted: Oct. 14 2016,04:09

Hi Pat, Kyrelel, and everyone,

I made a major discovery regarding my problem with instability even while using Dirk's fantastic autopilot.

The problem occurs only with my third-party helicopters, namely, helicopters by Virtavia.  Not to misunderstand, I like Virtavia products quite a lot.  One thing I like is the very easy install procedure.  Besides, they look and sound good.  I have the V-22 Osprey, and I am quite pleased with that.

However, when I am flying any one of the three Virtavia helicopters that I have (the Chinook CH-47D, the Kamov Ka-50, or the UH-60L Black Hawk) and then I go into the external view, I quickly lose control of the helicopter.

I now realize that this is not happening with the three default helicopters provided with FSX Steam.

Why is it happening with the Virtavia helicopters?  I don't know.  I contacted them, and they say that they "only make their models to work properly within FSX," and that they "cannot guarantee that every third-party add-on will work with their products."

I understand Virtavia's point of view.  Unfortunately, however, their helicopters don't work with the Fassbender HAP.  On the bright side, the default helicopters in FSX Steam do work just fine.

So I thank everyone for listening to this issue, and offering me their good advice.

Stanley


--------------
Stanley
Back to top
Profile PM 
Oliveethan
(HC340OL)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 1
Joined: April 2018
Posted: April 19 2018,10:36

I couldn't fly helicopters in any respect, but with the autopilot, I've robust manipulate with the helicopters provided with the aid of default in Microsoft FSX  each helicopters experience brilliant instability right from the beginning.

--------------
Do my Essay Cheap
Back to top
Profile PM 
tawny
(HC477TA)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 1
Joined: May 2018
Posted: May 28 2018,03:24

Their helicopters don't work with the Fassbender HAP

--------------
google gmail sign up guide, bullet force multiplayer
Back to top
Profile PM 
jeansy
(HC515JE)
Offline





Group: Member
Posts: 1195
Joined: May 2004
Posted: July 09 2018,12:33

Dirks AP works with all of virtavia's helos, there isnt any that dont

you need to ensure they contain the ap entry in the aircraft.cfg

Quote
[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=1800.000000
autothrottle_available=1
pitch_takeoff_ga=8.000000
max_pitch=10.000000
max_pitch_acceleration=1.000000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.500000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.000000
max_bank=25.000000
max_bank_acceleration=1.800000
max_bank_velocity=3.000000
max_throttle_rate=0.100000
nav_proportional_control=9.000000
nav_integrator_control=0.250000
nav_derivative_control=0.000000
nav_integrator_boundary=2.500000
nav_derivative_boundary=0.000000
gs_proportional_control=9.520000
gs_integrator_control=0.260000
gs_derivative_control=0.000000
gs_integrator_boundary=0.700000
gs_derivative_boundary=0.000000
yaw_damper_gain=0.000000
yaw_slip_control_gain=0.000000
yaw_control_uses_trim=0.000000


--------------
Matt
FS Painter @ The Hangar
Or Click here to direct access to All my Repaints

AUSTRALIA
Back to top
Profile PM 
Kyrelel
(HC868KY)
Offline





Group: Student Pilot
Posts: 55
Joined: Nov. 2014
Posted: July 26 2018,15:08

Having re-read this thread it seems you swap between F10 and F11 but not F9 (which, in some setups, means that the gauges are not initialised)
If you swap to F9 at some point and then try going between F10 and F11 and the problem stops, then that is where the problem lies.
Back to top
Profile PM 
14 replies since Oct. 07 2016,12:30 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]