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+--Forum: HTR - Helicopter Total Realism
+---Topic: Helicopter total realism 1.0 - htr -  released started by frednaar


Posted by: frednaar on Feb. 21 2010,17:46

After more than one year of hard work here it is !

< HELICOPTER TOTAL REALISM VERSION 1.02 >

(edited March 22)

Helicopter Total Realism (HTR) is a program that overrides FSX FS9 flight model with a more realistic model.

All the helicopter reactions are calculated using formulas taken from different aerodynamic books. Every helicopter can be configured using a .cfg file similar to the aircraft.cfg but with custom parameters used by the application to model the physics profile.

I have included a full manual with samples on how to create your own configurations.

Data is passed to and from FS using FSUIPC, so it works on FSX and FS9.

You will need the last version of FSIUPC (4.53 or later for FSX 0r 3.93 for FS9) to work.
HTR will not work properly with previous versions and the helicopter will jump all over. You can check the version under the \modules directory of FSX and clicking on properties for the file FSUIPC4.DLL

The included helicopters in this release are
-Bell 206
-Robinson R22
- Agusta Westland EH 101
- Aerospatiale AS 350 Ecureuil

I am currently working on a release for:
- Robinson R44

(I plan to update this list as more releases come out...)

I have also included the excellent Helicopter Flight Training Manual from the Canadian Dept of transportation which in my opinion is the best free manual on helicopter operations.

Please send me your feedbacks

Enjoy :cool:
Fred

Posted by: sundog on Feb. 21 2010,18:05

Wow, I cannot wait to try this, thanks very much for your very hard work on this!!
Posted by: Dirk on Feb. 21 2010,18:37

Downloaded and manual printed. I'm at Helisim the next 3 days and I will study the manual. Will be interesting to try it on the FSX AS332L2.

Thanks
Dirk

Posted by: frednaar on Feb. 21 2010,19:21

Lucky you Dirk!

Let me know if you need any help with the flight model, BTW thanks for the great work!

Fred

Posted by: jordan on Feb. 21 2010,19:23

I am excited to learn a little more about it.  Thanks Fred!
Posted by: Martoni on Feb. 21 2010,21:10

Great news!!

Thanks and best regards!!

Posted by: Rats404 on Feb. 21 2010,21:27

Bravo Fred.  

You have obviously worked very hard indeed on this project.  I am very interested to see how successful your work has been, particularly with regard to some of the work being done in advance of x-Plane 10.

If this does indeed allow designers to work with real world numbers and arrive at a realistic flight model, it is a very significant breakthrough in the world of helicopter simulation on desktop platforms.

I can't wait to hear what some of our professional helicopter pilots have to say about this after having flown the supplied profiles.

Ciao,

Rats404

Posted by: frednaar on Feb. 21 2010,21:28



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
I am excited to learn a little more about it.  Thanks Fred!
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi Jordan,
this is how it works. The program calculates the various forces applied to the helicopter at every cycle (update frequency). Each force causes an accelleration on the three axes, it might also cause a torque based on the force application point position in respect of the center of mass. Rotors also cause torques due to the torque applied by the engine.

The forces and relative positions are configured through a config file. I have also included an excel file and a manual to make things easier.

Through the configuration files you can define over 200 parameters that will  in turn define the main forces and their interactions, namely: Main Rotor, Tail Rotor, Drag, Gravity, Stabilizers. It is not that difficult to do, and creating a new configuration with testing should not last more than 2-3 evenings. The rotor modelig part is the most complex. Rotor thrust will depend on induced velocity that will in turn depend on rotor thrust and helicopter attitude and velocities.

Power  management will then define the power requirement, the necessary power will be supplied by the governor (if present). If power is insufficient (available power will change with altitude, especially for piston engines) this will result in a rotor RPM reduction. In descent, your power need will decrease to a point where autorotative power is sufficient to overcome the other forces, so you can operate a full autorotation without engines.

You can also simulate a series of helicopter specific failures and see how you can manage them.

I am not an helicopter pilot, or should I say a "real" helicopter pilot, but just a "virtual" one so I hope real pilots can adjust parameters to make each model fly as the real one (or I can change the program in case they report an unrealistic behaviour, I see this release as a starting point...)

Twin and coaxial rotors are not supported in this release but I will definitely try to model them for the next one.

Thanks to you Jordan, I think you made this happen, I just contributed.

Fred

P.S.: this software is dangerous to your FSX flying habits, maybe you'll see why in a while...

Posted by: hyfly on Feb. 21 2010,21:45

My dear friend,i have not gone true every detail yet but i must offer my sincere gratitude for such nice work and dedication.Willing to share  such work  is outstanding.Thanks a million.
Jean

Posted by: jordan on Feb. 21 2010,22:03

With a new baby in the house, I probably won't get the chance to use it in depth for a while, but I just previewed the operating manual...and as a person that has done some FSUIPC programming (Missions on Demand uses FSUIPC), this is some seriously cool stuff.  I didn't even know you could do some of those things through FSUIPC.

I really look forward to spending some time with it.

Fred, only every once in a while does someone develop something so interesting and foundational as this for the community, and in that regard you already deserve a lot of credit!

Posted by: srm on Feb. 21 2010,23:21

How would/does this effect the Dodosim helicopter?
Posted by: Hughes-MDflyer4 on Feb. 22 2010,01:12

Dodosim is probably already top realism.I don't believe you would need it for that helicopter. Why don't you try it?
Posted by: TheyTookMyWoody on Feb. 22 2010,02:03

Absolutely fantastic. I did a quick test run with the default Jetranger, and WOW! It makes a fantastic difference.

Gonna do some more flying later tonight, with some of the default configs. The manual is also very detailed, which is very appreciated.

I can't wait to see some configs come around for some addons. I'd like to see how the Cera 412 performs with this.

Fantastic job Fred!

Posted by: 19dcavscout on Feb. 22 2010,03:28

I would like to thank you for this.  I could only imagine the hard work you put into this.  Without people like you this community wouldn't be anything clsoe to what it is.  Thanks again.  Now I have to figure out how to make configs because I got a list of them I want with the Kiowa being at the top lol.

Nick

Posted by: frednaar on Feb. 22 2010,10:25

I am so glad about so many positive responses, thank you, its very rewarding.

I can give support to anyone creating new configurations, don't hesitate to post here any requests.

Nick, the Kiowa should be a breeze to model, just changing a few parameters from the jetranger, weight, drag and engine power should do. Which FSX model do you use? I can fix that for you.

Fred



Posted by: PDG-James on Feb. 22 2010,11:12

Wow.........

Well Done That Man!!!

Right who fancies writting configs for every addon chopper I have by tonight ha ha,

Again, many thanks you have realy given somthing to the community.

James

Posted by: bladeheli01 on Feb. 22 2010,11:16

Hi,

For this to work properly I take it that it requires the original default .air and .cfg files for the EH101 & JetRanger. I have slighlty modified the EH101 and it is uncontrollable. As soon as I apply any collective it just spins out of control, the same with the JetRanger but I havent changed that one. Also with the AS350 I keep getting Vortex Ring State appear when I am not in the flight conditions for that to happen. But otherwise the 350 doesn't feel too bad.

Any help or advice appreciated!

Rich

EDIT : - Right got that bit sorted - what realism settings are people using with this?



Posted by: hyfly on Feb. 22 2010,11:19

The config for the AS 350 BA can be also good for the Lama and Colibri with a few mods.I dont have time now but will look in to it.If someone cooks up a good one for the Nemeth UH 1H,please post.
Thanks again for this outstanding work.
Jean

Posted by: frednaar on Feb. 22 2010,12:45



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Hi,

For this to work properly I take it that it requires the original default .air and .cfg files for the EH101 & JetRanger. I have slighlty modified the EH101 and it is uncontrollable. As soon as I apply any collective it just spins out of control, the same with the JetRanger but I havent changed that one. Also with the AS350 I keep getting Vortex Ring State appear when I am not in the flight conditions for that to happen. But otherwise the 350 doesn't feel too bad.

Any help or advice appreciated!

Rich
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi Rich,
changing the config files should not alter the behaviour, maybe the air files might make a difference, I never tried.

Now a few, maybe silly, questions:
- i guess you are using FSX and not FS9 (EH 101...)
- do you have the last version of FSUIPC ?
- have you tried with a different joystick / calibration ?

Jetranger test
- check the air data window for the percent collective, cyclic and pedals, you should be having respectively 45-50%, 0% 0% on cyclic, 65-80% on pedals, if not something is wrong with FSUIPC or the hardware.

Hope this helps
Fred

Posted by: srm on Feb. 22 2010,14:43



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Dodosim is probably already top realism.I don't believe you would need it for that helicopter. Why don't you try it?
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


I don't intend to use it to better the Dodo, I just wanted to be sure that if I install it, the Dodo won't get messed up.
Posted by: bladeheli01 on Feb. 22 2010,15:25

Hi,

Thanks for that, I had just re-installed FSX and forgot to re-install the latest FSUIPC. Thats working now!

Cheers

Posted by: Wildbird109 on Feb. 22 2010,15:51

I'm not getting good results with this at all.  :(

Most of the time I get an instant take off and some wobbly flying before crashing. The take off happens without any collective and without running engine.... The aircraft responds slightly to controller input, but doesn't seems to be subject to any physical laws. I can do multiple rollovers and stuff like that.

Other times the heli is stuck halfway into the tarmac or rolled over as soon as fsx loads. Also without running engines.

And some times the heli has momentum forwards untill it crashes or I use the collective to take off.

Very rarily while starting will the helicopter stand still, but it will respond to the collective and jump into the air without starting the engines first.

All this happens with the the three FSX helicopters.  :(

What's going on? I've got the payed version of FSUIPC btw.

Posted by: frednaar on Feb. 22 2010,16:41



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
I'm not getting good results with this at all.  :(

Most of the time I get an instant take off and some wobbly flying before crashing. The take off happens without any collective and without running engine.... The aircraft responds slightly to controller input, but doesn't seems to be subject to any physical laws. I can do multiple rollovers and stuff like that.

Other times the heli is stuck halfway into the tarmac or rolled over as soon as fsx loads. Also without running engines.

And some times the heli has momentum forwards untill it crashes or I use the collective to take off.

Very rarily while starting will the helicopter stand still, but it will respond to the collective and jump into the air without starting the engines first.

All this happens with the the three FSX helicopters.  :(

What's going on? I've got the payed version of FSUIPC btw.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


I am sorry about that,

Is it the last version of fsuipc anyway ? it should be 4.53
you can check the version under the \modules directory of FSX and clicking on properties for the file FSUIPC4.DLL

did you do the bell jetranger test above?

Most likely it's an FSUIPC issue, as from the last to previous versions PeteDowson changed the center of gravity parameter and it can lead to a behaviour like you described.


Also try put the parameter meanAerodynamicChord=0 in the bell configuration to see if it then flies correct even with your current configuration.

Hope this helps
Fred

Posted by: frednaar on Feb. 22 2010,16:45



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
How would/does this effect the Dodosim helicopter?
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


HTR installation should do nothing to Dodosim, I am not changing any inside files within FSX, just using FSUIPC and as long as FSUIPC does nothing to Dodosim, HTR will not do anything too.

I don't know though running them together, meaning on dodo helicopter, it probably wont fly right as we might be giving conflicting commands.

bye
Fred

Posted by: natas2003 on Feb. 22 2010,18:08

Well ive only had good results and are now building my own profiles for some helicopters that havent flown well in X from a port over ,the BK117 is  one on the list ,i just gotta understand a little more on what im changing ,the read me is slowly making me understand cheers ..
i ported over the  hd as350b3 and then accessed the  as350ba profile you made ,great with this aircraft in X ..

i used to be able to fly like a pro ,youve made me a amateur again cheers   :D
im really enjoying it and will focus on learning the changes needed to make other profiles ..

10 outta 10
:;):

Posted by: srm on Feb. 22 2010,20:14



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------


---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
How would/does this effect the Dodosim helicopter?
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


I don't know though running them together, meaning on dodo helicopter, it probably wont fly right as we might be giving conflicting commands.

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Can you select when to run it and when not to?  IE, can I install it and use it with FSX B206 but not have it used with the DODO?

How would one do this?

Posted by: Simon853 on Feb. 22 2010,20:44

If the HTR interferes with the control axes in FSX then yes, it's likely to conflict with the Dodo.

What you might want to do in a future HTR release is to add "excludes" to the config file and allow the user to add the names of models to exclude from its functionality, i.e. if the user put Dodosim in the list then it would stop the HTR from performing any processing if it could retrieve the name of the currently loaded aircraft via FSUIPC when a new aircraft/flight is loaded.

Si

Posted by: natas2003 on Feb. 22 2010,21:14

Yes you can run it with or without ,its just a third party window to activate or just dont start it up at all and everything is normal ,very simple program to use ,ezyier  than adding a repaint ...
Posted by: 19dcavscout on Feb. 22 2010,21:37

I am using the Area 51 Kiowa.  Beautiful 3d model, ok virtual cockpit and the flight physics, well they just arent that great.  As for all the questions with the Dodo, if you dont have HTR running, it wont affect the bird in anyway. I flied last night and it worked fine, but I wasnt using HTR when flying the DODO.  I hope that answers some questions.
Posted by: jordan on Feb. 23 2010,00:46

I have moved the HTR utility to the utilities section of the file library.  It had accidentally been placed in the scenery development - utilities section.   The link in the OP should correct itself after a bit.
Posted by: TheyTookMyWoody on Feb. 23 2010,00:55



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Can you select when to run it and when not to?  IE, can I install it and use it with FSX B206 but not have it used with the DODO?

How would one do this?
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Yeah, it's like Heliforce. It only has an effect on FS when you run the shortcut. It doesn't really install into FS, it is a separate application you have to run along side FS. So, if you don't want to use it at any time for any reason, you can simply close the program, and be on your way.

So, it won't mess up your Dodosim 206, as long as you don't run the program along side FS when you are flying the Dodo Jetranger. It's very similar to Heliforce, if you've ever used that.

As natas said, it's a very easy program to use.

Posted by: frednaar on Feb. 23 2010,05:16



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Can you select when to run it and when not to?  IE, can I install it and use it with FSX B206 but not have it used with the DODO?

How would one do this?
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


HTR automatically disables itself when it doesn't find a proper configuration either in its own directory or in the aircraft/rotorcraft directory (see manual) this allows you to switch helicopters without even thinking about HTR.

So if you load a dodosim helicopter and HTR is running, it wont interfere as long as you don't have created a profile for Dodosim specifically (HTR looks at the sim parameter in the aricraft.cfg or sim.cfg)

Another option is to unflag the Enable HTR checkbox in the main window.

A third option is obviously to close the application.

bye
Fred
P.S. Jordan thanks for moving my files, I always get lost in the upload section...

Posted by: PDG-James on Feb. 23 2010,07:50

Mine works well with the FSUIPC I downloaded yesterday, and have flown the dodosim since, without running HTR and I didnt notice any changes

Regards James

Posted by: Focha on Feb. 25 2010,14:25

Really nice news. I'll try it ASAP. As anyone have a Bell 212 config for CERA?

Regards.

Posted by: frednaar on Feb. 25 2010,15:42



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Really nice news. I'll try it ASAP. As anyone have a Bell 212 config for CERA?

Regards.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


I am working on it together with R44, give me a couple of weeks (I am away for a few days..). I am also fixing the EH 101 of the release because it's not OK.

Maybe I am biased but it changed my way to fly, so I am trying to change all my favourite helicopters one at a time... :)


Bye
Fred

Posted by: sundog on Feb. 27 2010,17:25

Wow, this is great...

I started a Cera Bell 412 profile a couple hours ago, and I'm just about done input data.  I'm using your method of printing the pictures and measuring to scale...(got the spec sheet and dimensions from the Bell website)...anyway, input my data by measuring in mm's, and ended up the calculated empty weight in the spreadsheet was only 140 kgs off the official Bell spec sheet!!!   Amazing!  I cant wait to start testing the flight of this baby!

Thanks again, Fred...this is awesome fun!

Posted by: empeck on Feb. 27 2010,18:13

Thanks for this great program. It's fantastic! I've been flying in FSX+HTR last few days, and I can do a stable hover in EH-101 now :)

Now I have two favourite helicopter simulators, DCS and FSX+HTR :)

I'd love to see a support for tandem rotor helicopters in the future - I'm thinking about Piasecki H21-C for FSX, one of my favourite helicopters in FSX.

Posted by: thomasmck on Feb. 27 2010,19:03

First let me congratulate you on a new way of thinking for helicopter flight.

Flight simmers have been posting positive reviews, and you are keen to improve your creation.

Unfortunately I have not had a good experience. It may be my setup / joystick or lots of different reasons.

When I start a flight with any of the default helis (With no import from me and joystick control centre and throttle down) they either race along the ground like a speeding car / take off in a uncontrolled and bizarre fight pattern / take off and turn inverted.

I have downloaded FSUIP C4 ver: 4.5.7.0.

My system
FSX Acceleration (No addons currently installed)
Logitech 3D pro Joystick

I have been flying MS flight sim helicopters from when they first became available.  

As I said at the beginning people are posting very positive experiences and it may be a few like me are having setup issues. I may have to wait for a future updated version.

I wish you success

Posted by: sundog on Feb. 27 2010,23:53

You have to have the heli fully running and the flight loaded before starting HTR...

..at least that's the way it is on my system.

Posted by: frednaar on Feb. 28 2010,07:07



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
When I start a flight with any of the default helis (With no import from me and joystick control centre and throttle down) they either race along the ground like a speeding car / take off in a uncontrolled and bizarre fight pattern / take off and turn inverted.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi,
The error you describelooks like an FSUIPC version issue. I will release a new version in the next weeks that checks the FSUIPC version before running the program.
Could you please do those checks let me know on this post:

1. Launch FSX a flight with Bell 206
2. Launch HTR and click on the air data tab
3. Unpause FSX until the air data tab fills with data
4. Pause FSX and read the COG value on the bottom of the page

If the COG value is something like 0,47 or 0,53 its ok. If it reads as an integer like 47 or 57 it is an FSUIPC version issue




---------------------QUOTE-------------------
I have downloaded FSUIP C4 ver: 4.5.7.0.

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Please check the version of the FSUIPC by clicking on properties of the fsuipc4.DLL file under the modules section maybe the install did not go through properly.
if the version reads 4.57 please send me the FSUIPC4.DLL at my email as I willl have to contact Peter Dowson to see if there'b been a change in this version that affects HTR

Thanks , let me know
Bye
Fred




if you read version 4.57 on the

Posted by: thomasmck on Feb. 28 2010,13:47

Thank you for your reply.

As per your instructions :  My COG value is 00.53   (I have started FSX several times and it remains at 00.53)

One thing may be of interest to you, if I leave the program running for a few minutes with the 206 doing its bizarre flight pattern, it calms downs and I can regain enough control to have a reasonable flight.
But if I fly below aprox 50ft I start lose all control and she returns to uncontrolled and bizarre flight pattern. If I try and land she crashes and than starts to race along the ground travelling a long way. Upon trying to re take off and just before lift off she always turns inverted to the right.

I have re download   FSUIP C4 ver: 4.5.7.0. and re installed. (Same issue)

I have checked the version in the modules folder and it is Ver 4.57

At present having problems with sending email.  

I also have to go now  (Sunday family get togethers)

Once again thank you.

Posted by: Leorstef on Feb. 28 2010,19:32

Fred, I would say that I have most of my flights with HTR working quite well.  At least 90-95%.
But, I want to add I have had some similar circumstances like Thomas.
Just some observations I have noted over the past week.
I am running FSUIPC 4.57 as well on FSX.

One flight with the R-22 I started, and it was totally out of control.
Next was fine, but it kept going in and out of Retreating Blade stall, rather rhythmically.
Conditions should not have been causing RBS.

I had one instance where the EH-101 was sitting on the ground at idle.  I watched, still at idle, as it slowly began to shift around on the landing gear.
It continued to build and build until it was fully compressing the struts on the gear, damaged its gear, and then rolled over on it's back and crashed.
It really was almost like you may have seen in videos of helicopters experiencing ground resonance.

I have had an instance where the Bell 206 was sitting on the ground at idle, and it was going in and out of Vortex Ring State about as fast as you could snap your fingers.

With the Bell 206, I have had times where I am at a hover, and it seems to start developing an excessive pendulum action, that sometimes is hard to correct.
Again, it seems to build up over time.
Most times it hovers fine.

I have also observed on my system where for all of the helicopters, they start to 'wobble' for lack of a better term.
Almost like a spinning top when it starts to lose momentum.
Its a very, very, slowly building process.  Usually occurs in level flight over a long period of time (few minutes).
It is easily correctable but I thought I would mention that.

One thing on my system I noticed, when I set the updates per second higher, it seemed to smooth things out much better.

I just want to pass this info along in the hopes it will help you.

Now, with all that noted. Please don't get me wrong, folks.
Not bashing here.
I love HTR, Fred!  I am already at the point I don't want to fly any helicopter in FSX without it!
A big heartfelt thanks to you Mr. Naar for all of the hard work and time you have obviously spent on this superior add-on!
It's truly something special for the helicopter sim community!
:D



Posted by: hyfly on Feb. 28 2010,23:27

Would it be possible that it is all related to frame rate going bazurk specialy if you have your setting at unlimited. If you set your FSPS at unlimited it will go from 100 to 18 to 67 to32 to .....in fractions of seconds.Just a wild guess here .......would it have any affect on HTR.
Jean

Posted by: Leorstef on Mar. 01 2010,03:51



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Would it be possible that it is all related to frame rate going bazurk specialy if you have your setting at unlimited. If you set your FSPS at unlimited it will go from 100 to 18 to 67 to32 to .....in fractions of seconds.Just a wild guess here .......would it have any affect on HTR.
Jean
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Me? Nope.
Mine is locked at 25.  Sorry.

Sundog's recommendation has actually worked out the the best for me this weekend.
You sometimes forget all the stuff you run in the background after a while. :p

With a real weather program, a force feedback program, and a controller profiler running in the background, I have found it works much better to just let FSX load up first.
Then I let the weather program finish updating for about a minute, before starting HTR up.
Maybe its competing for "simconnect bandwidth" or something...  :D

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 01 2010,06:58

Thanks for all the feedback.

I am not at home now so I have limited internet access, I currently run 4.53, I'll try to upgrade to 4.57 to see if it is a version issue.

Also I plan to issue a minor HTR release (1.02) this coming weekend.  This release won't change much, except I have added a much deeper debugging function so you will be able to send me a debug file and I should be able to test it on my PC as you experienced it (cool eh?)

I am asking you to help me on debugging. If the strange behaviours appear and you restart FSX and HTR, do they appear again or are they gone?

I suspect a communication channel conflict or something...
 
As long as when to start HTR: the flight does not need to be loaded, but FSX should be running otherwise you get a message and it self disables.

Bye
Fred

Posted by: sundog on Mar. 02 2010,01:04

OK, here is my Cera 412EP dynamics .cfg....  it's not perfect, but its much better than default, and I am going to tweak it further to get the most I can out of it!

I would like to hear comments/feedback, especially from somebody with any time flying or riding in one of these birds...I'm basing my .cfg on my experiences flying the Dodosim!

< http://www.mediafire.com/?sharek....21448c9 >



Posted by: Focha on Mar. 02 2010,01:05

Really great work. I used the application on the weekend and I enjoy it very much.

By the way, I am doing a config for CERA Bell 212, is anyone doing it too? Does anyone knows the rotors RPM for the 212?

Best regards.



Posted by: sundog on Mar. 02 2010,02:31

I'm not sure about the 212, and a quick search on the Bell website didn't turn anything up either...you may want to do a proper internet search for old UH-1N manuals.
Posted by: nmaggie on Mar. 02 2010,04:35

I don't have a "modules" directory in my FSX (I've got one in my FS2004.  I have an "xuipc.dll" in FSX but no fsuipc.dll  ???
Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 02 2010,17:37



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
I don't have a "modules" directory in my FSX (I've got one in my FS2004.  I have an "xuipc.dll" in FSX but no fsuipc.dll  ???
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


The modules directory is created by FSUIPC when you install it. This means FSUIPC is not installed on your system.

Hope this helps
Fred

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 02 2010,17:41



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Really great work. I used the application on the weekend and I enjoy it very much.

By the way, I am doing a config for CERA Bell 212, is anyone doing it too? Does anyone knows the rotors RPM for the 212?

Best regards.

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


From the Cera Manual it should be:
MAIN ROTOR
diameter 48 feet
chord 23.38 inches
324 RPM

TAIL ROTOR
diameter 8.6 feet
chord 11,5 inches
RPM 1660

Great you are doing this configuration, let me know when you release it!

Bye

Fred

Posted by: Focha on Mar. 02 2010,23:59

Thanks Fred, I am not near the sim PC to consult the manual although I found a UH-1N spec sheet, the only number that differs from the CERA manual is the tail rotor RPM by 4+ RPM.

Thanks for posting it will help.

Regards.

Posted by: nmaggie on Mar. 03 2010,02:29

Thanks Fred.  The only available version of FSUIPC I could find for download is 4.57 (not 4.53).  Reading this thread, it sounds like some folks may be having problems with 4.57.  Any news?
Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 03 2010,06:48



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Thanks Fred.  The only available version of FSUIPC I could find for download is 4.57 (not 4.53).  Reading this thread, it sounds like some folks may be having problems with 4.57.  Any news?
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Yes
HTR should be working fine with 4.57, many people are using it.
I will test It thoughrougly next weekend and also release a more complete debugger so I can see what you see.

Bye
fred

Posted by: 19dcavscout on Mar. 03 2010,12:35

I have two requests for this amazing software, would there be a way to incorporate random failures instead of always having to just select one?  Also is there a way to prevent two of the programs to open?  For some reason sometimes I click on it and it doesnt seems like it will load, so I click again and maybe even once more, then all three pop up.  Its not a big deal, just thought I would ask.  Thanks.  Still loving this though, thanks again.
Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 03 2010,22:19



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
I have two requests for this amazing software, would there be a way to incorporate random failures instead of always having to just select one?  Also is there a way to prevent two of the programs to open?  For some reason sometimes I click on it and it doesnt seems like it will load, so I click again and maybe even once more, then all three pop up.  Its not a big deal, just thought I would ask.  Thanks.  Still loving this though, thanks again.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi,
Good suggestions I will add them to the next minor release

I'll do a random failure at a random time between 30 to 180 seconds, sounds ok ?

Also the application already running will give you an error...

I checked the software tonight either on the last version of FSUIPC4 for FSX (4.60) and of FS9 (3.98).

FSX is running with no problems (I tried on 2 different PC's one with Windows 7 the other with Windows XP)

FS9 I found a minor error, the directory should be placed under FS9 and named "htr" and not "HTR" to recognize the helicopters (I will fix it in the next minor release)

Also in FS9 the pitch roll and yaw velocities are very much damped in respect of FSX, probably because of some conflicting instructions. As I will support mainly FSX I suggest to FS9 users to adjust configurations by halving the moments of inertia and doubling the maxcyclic values to have a similar experience as in FSX..

Bye
Fred



Posted by: gorlosky on Mar. 03 2010,23:22

So - just what will HTR do, make flying harder or easier for the average Joystick / Foot Pedal user ?


Posted by: sundog on Mar. 04 2010,01:22



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
So - just what will HTR do, make flying harder or easier for the average Joystick / Foot Pedal user ?
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Gorlosky:  HTR will make the aircraft handle more realistically...It adds a few helicopter dynamics that FSX does not have by default.  Every helicopter must have a .cfg file tuned specifically to that helicopter, and the HTR program (created by the brilliant Fred Naar) will take the info in that profile and apply it to the flight dynamics of the aircraft.

Example: In default FSX, one could pull pitch and lift the bird off the ground with no footpedal input....

In HTR, with a properly tuned profile, the user must use footpedal input while lifting off to maintain heading; just like in a real whirlybird.

I bought the Cera Bell 412 when it was released, and flew it for maybe 1/2 hour.  Now with HTR, I am actually putting hours into the aircraft......so I guess HTR makes flying easier for me!!!!!

Posted by: 19dcavscout on Mar. 04 2010,02:10

That random generator would be great, thanks.  Mine allows more than one to come up.  Maybe its a Windows 7 thing.
Posted by: thomasmck on Mar. 04 2010,19:32

Hi Fred

Further to my earlier post regarding uncontrolled and bizarre fight patterns.

Well tonight after loading FSX with HTR & the Bell 206. (No such problems) She placed herself firmly on the runway and as I increased the collective she eased herself into the air.

I made several landings / take offs under full control. I have no idea why today she fly’s without the problems I had earlier this week. I have made no changes to my setup.
 
What a major difference from the default 206.

Thank you very much for giving us flight simmers this wonderful program.

Posted by: thomasmck on Mar. 04 2010,19:51

Sorry Fred

Restarted  FSX with HTR & the Bell 206 but she back to the problems I had earlier this week.

Just before take off she turns up side down.

I restarted FSX several times with no change.

Posted by: sundog on Mar. 04 2010,22:20

Thomas,

Are you starting HTR with the flight sim, or are you waiting to start the 206 with engines running and then turning on HTR??

Personally, I have to wait until the bird is up and running before starting HTR and taking off.  Otherwise I get the same quirk as you.

EDIT:  Also make sure you work your collective and throttle through some motion before starting your bird.



Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 05 2010,10:56



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Sorry Fred

Restarted  FSX with HTR & the Bell 206 but she back to the problems I had earlier this week.

Just before take off she turns up side down.

I restarted FSX several times with no change.

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


In the next few days (possibly on Sunday) I plan to release a minor update of the software (version 1.02)

If you widh to send me your email adress I can send you a preliminary release of the update and you can send me the debug file so maybe I fix the behaviour for the update itself.


The update will include a few small improvements one of which will be flight recording/replaying and especially for me ...debugging.

It will also be a cool feature as you will be able to send a recorded flight to someone and maybe add a sound file to do virtual lessons ....

Also this will allow me to debug in detail the application and uderstand why sometimes the flight starts with strange behaviour (I think it might be FSX sending strange data upon load and HTR going nuts, if I have a debug file I can most probably fix that).


Bye
Fred

Posted by: sundog on Mar. 05 2010,14:23

I have continued working on a Cera Bell 412EP profile, and have a newer version available for download.

This one flies and turns much better, and is more stable in the wind.  The autostabilization in the .cfg has been turned down, so if you find it too unstable, edit the .cfg...[increase the figures to around 20-30.]

**Caution**  pay close attention to you VNE, or be prepared to suffer the consequences!!



< http://www.mediafire.com/?sharek....21448c9 >

Posted by: nanai on Mar. 05 2010,15:00

hello everybody,

I'd like to express my appreciation for this program and for the efforts in making it. I just want to tell you something I have noticed: I normally use the HUD when I fly an helicopter and it is strange to see that the rpm indication is different if taken from the HUD rather from the little window given by your program. I mean that often the HUD gauge says 107% and in the other window you can read "low rotor rpm" toghether with an indication of less htan 100%. Am I mistaking something? Is there an explanation?

Posted by: dennison on Mar. 05 2010,23:54



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
I have continued working on a Cera Bell 412EP profile, and have a newer version available for download.

This one flies and turns much better, and is more stable in the wind.  The autostabilization in the .cfg has been turned down, so if you find it too unstable, edit the .cfg...[increase the figures to around 20-30.]

**Caution**  pay close attention to you VNE, or be prepared to suffer the consequences!!



< http://www.mediafire.com/?sharek....21448c9 >

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Thank you Rick.
Posted by: hammy1124 on Mar. 06 2010,02:26

Hi all

I don't know if this is a bug or if the problem is on my side but
I cant seem to get a smooth take off with htr.

It appears that there is no torque yaw when you start to
lift the collective on the ground , it seems to come on only once you are in the air, so when im at about 50% torque and
light on the skids there no torque yaw and the helicopter
starts to slide in the direction you push the pedal to counteract torque yaw on take off.

so as i try to straighten the nose by pushing the pedal
in the other direction and pull the collective slowly
to 60% torque it jumps violently into the air and yaws to the side so i can't control yaw during takeoff because it comes on after im in the air.

Ive been able to get a smoother take off by increasing the
max collective entry in the cfg but the problem of no torque yaw
when light on the skids still remains. Also once im flying i can't seem to go beyond 60% torque without getting the low rpm warning.

by the way im mostly using the default 206 dynamics but
the other helicopters also have the same problem.

has anyone else noticed this

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 06 2010,05:11



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
hello everybody,

I'd like to express my appreciation for this program and for the efforts in making it. I just want to tell you something I have noticed: I normally use the HUD when I fly an helicopter and it is strange to see that the rpm indication is different if taken from the HUD rather from the little window given by your program. I mean that often the HUD gauge says 107% and in the other window you can read "low rotor rpm" toghether with an indication of less htan 100%. Am I mistaking something? Is there an explanation?

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi,
no this is normal. As explained on the manual I could not alter the rotor RPM value on FSX as an effect of the physics model. I tried in many ways but could never get a result (it is a derived value).

Also I wanted HTR to be working for any helicopter model, and fixing this might have meant creating a specific gauge for each of them...

So I decided to give my own RPM indication in the small window when below or above 100%.. The rotor RPM you see inyour HUD or instruments is from the FSX flight model.

All other flight instruments work as they should, only the rotor and engine rpm have to be overrided. I hope I can find a solution one day...

Bye
Fred

Posted by: Focha on Mar. 07 2010,03:08



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
I have continued working on a Cera Bell 412EP profile, and have a newer version available for download.

This one flies and turns much better, and is more stable in the wind.  The autostabilization in the .cfg has been turned down, so if you find it too unstable, edit the .cfg...[increase the figures to around 20-30.]

**Caution**  pay close attention to you VNE, or be prepared to suffer the consequences!!



< http://www.mediafire.com/?sharek....21448c9 >

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Just passing by to say that your config for the 412 is great. Really great indeed. The only thing I have issue with, is when I am at hover and reduce collective, it starts to descend but when it is near the ground it bounces a bit up, this is probably an over reaction of ground effect.

Regards.

Posted by: Focha on Mar. 07 2010,13:52

I had to turn off the FSX head movements did you guys turn it off too? It caused little strange head movements, like in the hover your head is all tilted and you lost a bit of visual references.

Regards.

Posted by: sundog on Mar. 07 2010,15:20

Thanks for the comments Focha....I've put a few hours into that .cfg, so its good to hear people are enyoying it.  I will continue to work on the 412 profile and try to iron out all the details to make it fly realistically.  I know that it bounces too much on the air cushion, but that's the best I can do for now.  There are many other parameters of flight that the profile does not do realistically...for ex. the max hover altitude is way off....it will only fly at lower altitudes right now, - below 7000 ft i think.  

I also had to turn the head movement off...it was totally messing me up!!

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 07 2010,16:25



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Thanks for the comments Focha....I've put a few hours into that .cfg, so its good to hear people are enyoying it.  I will continue to work on the 412 profile and try to iron out all the details to make it fly realistically.  I know that it bounces too much on the air cushion, but that's the best I can do for now.  There are many other parameters of flight that the profile does not do realistically...for ex. the max hover altitude is way off....it will only fly at lower altitudes right now, - below 7000 ft i think.  

I also had to turn the head movement off...it was totally messing me up!!
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi,
regarding the 412EP great configuration I agree.

Thanks to Focha I found a bug on the ground effect calculation, I was using the rotor height vs the datum instead of vs the groud and adding the sim helicopter AGL height. This puts the rotor for the 412 EP at 7.5 feet from the ground, also rotor radius affects the ground effect. I  will probably have to add a parameter to fix that.

I am fixing that in the next minor patch (max a few days)

What is this head movement thing ? mine stays where I tell her to... :D .
Just kidding, where do you disable it ?

Bye
Fred



Posted by: Focha on Mar. 07 2010,17:08

Hi there Fred,

Thanks for the quick reply. About the head movement, in the fsx.cfg file you have a line like this;



---------------------CODE SAMPLE-------------------
[DynamicHeadMovement]
LonAccelOnHeadLon=-0.020000
LonAccelOnHeadPitch=-0.010000
RollAccelOnHeadLat=0.010000
YawAccelOnHeadLat=-0.100000
RollAccelOnHeadRoll=0.100000
MaxHeadAngle=5.000000
MaxHeadOffset=0.300000
HeadMoveTimeConstant=1.000000
---------------------CODE SAMPLE-------------------



I replace the values with this ones;



---------------------CODE SAMPLE-------------------
[DynamicHeadMovement]
LonAccelOnHeadLon=-0.000000
LonAccelOnHeadPitch=-0.000000
RollAccelOnHeadLat=0.000000
YawAccelOnHeadLat=-0.000000
RollAccelOnHeadRoll=0.000000
MaxHeadAngle=0.000000
MaxHeadOffset=0.000000
HeadMoveTimeConstant=1.000000
---------------------CODE SAMPLE-------------------



Don't know if those are the most correct values to input but it works fine with me. I have track ir 4 by the way.

About the ground effect, it's correct to say that the rotor radius (or diameter) affects the ground effect since the greater the rotor disc the more the induced flow volume.

Best regards.

Posted by: sundog on Mar. 07 2010,17:11

The head movement values are located in the FSX.cfg, which is in the C:\Users\Windows User\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\FSX location.

I set all the values to 0.

Thanks for the support Fred!!

In a couple days when I have more time to work on my profile, I intend to send you an email with various questions and comments...thanks again for the wonderful program; I'm having a lot of fun creating profiles!

Posted by: jordan on Mar. 09 2010,02:23

Fred,

I got a chance to fly the 206 tonight with HTR for the first time.

I just wanted to tell you that it is absolutely brilliant work you have done.  

Very exciting, and very engaging.  I almost can not believe some of the things HTR is doing.  It makes me excited, and helps me to realize that there is still so much to learn.

Maybe someday you will let me learn a few things about FSUIPC interactions from you.  I have been using it heavily for about 2 years, and it seems it can do so much more than what I know.

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 09 2010,09:17



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Fred,

I got a chance to fly the 206 tonight with HTR for the first time.

I just wanted to tell you that it is absolutely brilliant work you have done.  

Very exciting, and very engaging.  I almost can not believe some of the things HTR is doing.  It makes me excited, and helps me to realize that there is still so much to learn.

Maybe someday you will let me learn a few things about FSUIPC interactions from you.  I have been using it heavily for about 2 years, and it seems it can do so much more than what I know.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Thank you Jordan,
I would be very happy to give you any FSUIPC knowledge I have even though I have mostly a physics / aerodynamics expertise.

I'd love to me able for example to be able to have the gauges on the helos report HTR rotor and torque data but I am not a gauge expert...

I am currently working on release 1.02 that fixes a few minor bugs, based on the feedback I got here at hovercontrol this includes:
-FSUIPC version check to avoid running with wrong version
- Lateral COG now affects center of gravity displacement
- Tail rotor Hit small error
- FS9 open config not working if the directory was uppercase
- new parameter for rotor height to fix a small ground effect bug
-new parameter for ground yaw friction coefficient to fix the light on skids issue (I was using the linear friction coefficient but it was  very difficult  to adjust for both effects)
- basic recording replaying records the pilot input and model velocities, this should allow to make small HTR tutorials, maybe running a synchronized voice track
- random failures as requested
- multiple application instances will be blocked.


I think I will be ready next weekend, I would like to replace current HTR version instead of adding a new one. Would it be possible to email the file to Chris or yourself and make a file replacement ?

Thank you and bye
Fred

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 09 2010,09:21



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
There are many other parameters of flight that the profile does not do realistically...for ex. the max hover altitude is way off....it will only fly at lower altitudes right now, - below 7000 ft i think.  
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Is it a power problem or a thrust problem ?

in the first case the easiest way is to adjust the
kconstant parameter which is an experimental value based on thrust/power ratio

in the second case you should adjust the maxcollective value of the mainrotor

let me know...
Fred

Posted by: sundog on Mar. 09 2010,14:07

Ok, Fred, thanks for that.  I hadn't tried adjusting the Kconstant yet, but will play with that value.

Also, I've sent you an email with some comments/questions.

Thanks!!

Posted by: Focha on Mar. 10 2010,02:23

Hi there all.

I've been flying and testing the 412 profile. While in cruise it seems that the tail rotor has a lot of efficiency. Can someone test it in cruise? Also, correct me if I am wrong, it doesn't seem that the helicopter fuselage tends to turn into the relative wind but if it does probably it is barely notice because of the high tail rotor efficiency in cruise. Well, aerodynamically talking about the tail rotor disc it should be more efficient with some speed since translational lift also occur in tail rotor but the fuselage drag and inertia should also reduce or lower the tail rotor response, correct me if I am wrong.

Sundog in the configuration file you write the VNE = 120 mph, this is not true, the VNE is ~161 mph (140 KIAS) from sea level to 3000'. After that general VNE you have a bunch of them... VNE decrease per pressure altitude, VNE when above 81% torque, VNE when AP engaged, VNE without doors and so on. I am saying this because in cruise when at 120 KIAS the aircraft start to shake a lot.

I hope I am helping.

Regards.

Edit: Also Fred in your config of Bell 206B you have VNE = 120 MPH, this should be 150 MPH (130 KIAS).



Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 10 2010,04:38



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Hi there all.

I've been flying and testing the 412 profile. While in cruise it seems that the tail rotor has a lot of efficiency. Can someone test it in cruise? Also, correct me if I am wrong, it doesn't seem that the helicopter fuselage tends to turn into the relative wind but if it does probably it is barely notice because of the high tail rotor efficiency in cruise. Well, aerodynamically talking about the tail rotor disc it should be more efficient with some speed since translational lift also occur in tail rotor but the fuselage drag and inertia should also reduce or lower the tail rotor response, correct me if I am wrong.

Sundog in the configuration file you write the VNE = 120 mph, this is not true, the VNE is ~161 mph (140 KIAS) from sea level to 3000'. After that general VNE you have a bunch of them... VNE decrease per pressure altitude, VNE when above 81% torque, VNE when AP engaged, VNE without doors and so on. I am saying this because in cruise when at 120 KIAS the aircraft start to shake a lot.

I hope I am helping.

Regards.

Edit: Also Fred in your config of Bell 206B you have VNE = 120 MPH, this should be 150 MPH (130 KIAS).
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi,
sundog is fixing the configuration now, we exchanged an email on this problem, it seems there was an excessive rotor torque and a not sufficient stabilizer effect...

regarding the VNE issue, it a typing mistake from me, VNE should be inserted in KIAS and not MPH....I am fixing the manual now

VNE will decrease due to lower air density (so pressure altitude) and increase if you are flying below max gross weight (affects torque). the increase and decrease is not a linear equation but a slightly more complex one.

Open and closed doors are not modeled, I could do it but it will depend on the loaded model.

The shaking of the aircraft is not programmed, it could be either a stuttering problem (easy if you are flying sideways, check your lateral velocity) or a configuration problem...

bye
Fred

Posted by: Focha on Mar. 10 2010,09:39



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------


---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Hi there all.

I've been flying and testing the 412 profile. While in cruise it seems that the tail rotor has a lot of efficiency. Can someone test it in cruise? Also, correct me if I am wrong, it doesn't seem that the helicopter fuselage tends to turn into the relative wind but if it does probably it is barely notice because of the high tail rotor efficiency in cruise. Well, aerodynamically talking about the tail rotor disc it should be more efficient with some speed since translational lift also occur in tail rotor but the fuselage drag and inertia should also reduce or lower the tail rotor response, correct me if I am wrong.

Sundog in the configuration file you write the VNE = 120 mph, this is not true, the VNE is ~161 mph (140 KIAS) from sea level to 3000'. After that general VNE you have a bunch of them... VNE decrease per pressure altitude, VNE when above 81% torque, VNE when AP engaged, VNE without doors and so on. I am saying this because in cruise when at 120 KIAS the aircraft start to shake a lot.

I hope I am helping.

Regards.

Edit: Also Fred in your config of Bell 206B you have VNE = 120 MPH, this should be 150 MPH (130 KIAS).
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi,
sundog is fixing the configuration now, we exchanged an email on this problem, it seems there was an excessive rotor torque and a not sufficient stabilizer effect...

regarding the VNE issue, it a typing mistake from me, VNE should be inserted in KIAS and not MPH....I am fixing the manual now

VNE will decrease due to lower air density (so pressure altitude) and increase if you are flying below max gross weight (affects torque). the increase and decrease is not a linear equation but a slightly more complex one.

Open and closed doors are not modeled, I could do it but it will depend on the loaded model.

The shaking of the aircraft is not programmed, it could be either a stuttering problem (easy if you are flying sideways, check your lateral velocity) or a configuration problem...

bye
Fred

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Ok Fred, thanks for the reply. The shacking is high frequency, barely notice, but is there. I'll try to check it further.

Regards.

Posted by: sundog on Mar. 10 2010,14:07

OK, I have redone the last .cfg due to several problems...  Seems I was changing the wrong values to attain the flight characteristics I wanted.

This profile flies better than previous ones; but I am still having problems with VNE, flying at higher altitudes, and some ground problems.  

< http://www.mediafire.com/file/z5y25tmljju/Bell_412_EP_v1.05.zip >


Thanks Fred for the support, I took your advise and it helped to fix some problems.

@ Focha, I believe the reason for the shaking you experienced was because of a value I should not have had in the profile.  I hope this goes away with the new one.  1 question though;  Was your updates per second value in the HTR menu below 30?  

Anyway, enjoy the profile, I enjoy trying to make these as real as I can!



Posted by: dennison on Mar. 10 2010,18:35

I think the slight shake is a bonus, it gives a sense of helicopter vibration. As long as the effect is not too strong it's a good side effect in my opinion.

I understand how for most shaking is seen as a problem/unwelcome  as helicopter vibration has not been simulated before(AFAIK).

Anyone who has flown in a real one will know all about it though.

Is it known yet, how to control this effect within HTR?



Posted by: Focha on Mar. 10 2010,20:08

@ sundog - In fact I have the value at 20. Regarding the ground issues I think Fred is already aware and is working on a new version.

@ dennison - Yes, helicopter are shaking machines. More or less depends on what type of machine is. Alouette III turns you into a milk shake. But on a 350 B3 is really smooth, not so much for a 130 B4. There are lots of helicopter with lots of different vibrations, that surely is complex to simulate on a PC sim, and it's a bit annoying to have the cockpit shacking since in real life, in normal frequencies you don't have your eyes in resonance. But some types of turbulence would be welcome. Maybe we get lucky.  :cool:

Regards and I'll test the new file. Thank you a lot for your work.

Posted by: sundog on Mar. 11 2010,00:21

Focha,

I had that shaking as well when my setting was @ 20.  I bumped my setting up to 50, and it stopped...   You may want to try that.

Posted by: dennison on Mar. 11 2010,07:30



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
@ dennison - Yes, helicopter are shaking machines. More or less depends on what type of machine is. Alouette III turns you into a milk shake. But on a 350 B3 is really smooth, not so much for a 130 B4. There are lots of helicopter with lots of different vibrations, that surely is complex to simulate on a PC sim, and it's a bit annoying to have the cockpit shacking since in real life, in normal frequencies you don't have your eyes in resonance. But some types of turbulence would be welcome. Maybe we get lucky.  :cool:

Regards and I'll test the new file. Thank you a lot for your work.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Yep,
I'm a helicopter engineer by trade, I'm just saying that a small amount of shake adds to the realism in general of all sim helicopters in my opinion.

It would seem HTR can simulate Vibration to a degree as the shake is only present when the application is applied to an aircraft.

I'm sure most won't like it, just me i think.

I agree, to much would be a pain and get on your nerves.The effect is quite subtle anyway.

So which lines of the cfg do you edit to add or remove the shake effect?

Regards



Posted by: Focha on Mar. 11 2010,09:34



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------


---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
@ dennison - Yes, helicopter are shaking machines. More or less depends on what type of machine is. Alouette III turns you into a milk shake. But on a 350 B3 is really smooth, not so much for a 130 B4. There are lots of helicopter with lots of different vibrations, that surely is complex to simulate on a PC sim, and it's a bit annoying to have the cockpit shacking since in real life, in normal frequencies you don't have your eyes in resonance. But some types of turbulence would be welcome. Maybe we get lucky.  :cool:

Regards and I'll test the new file. Thank you a lot for your work.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Yep,
I'm a helicopter engineer by trade, I'm just saying that a small amount of shake adds to the realism in general of all sim helicopters in my opinion.

It would seem HTR can simulate Vibration to a degree as the shake is only present when the application is applied to an aircraft.

I'm sure most won't like it, just me i think.

I agree, to much would be a pain and get on your nerves.The effect is quite subtle anyway.

So which lines of the cfg do you edit to add or remove the shake effect?

Regards

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


I am not quite sure that the vibrations are implemented. The shake that we got it seems to be caused by the lower frequency that the program reads the data from sim. Maybe Fred will implement an option to have or not have vibration effects. The vibrations I was getting were really high frequency so that was really annoying. Maybe having a lower random frequency would be great.
One addon that really mimic the vibrations of the panel and control is the Aerosoft Dornier Do 27, although it's not a helicopter neither a turbine, helicopter's devs could learn from it.

Best regards.

Posted by: nono1928 on Mar. 11 2010,14:35

I would also like to have vibrations implemented, and not only when reaching the VNE. I think it would add a lot of realism :)
Just check this video, I really enjoy it:
< Bell 206 vibration >

By the way, thanks a lot again frednaar for your software!

BR

Posted by: TAC X on Mar. 11 2010,15:48

Default 206 already vibrates without HTR, as do most of the FSX A/C.  Maybe HTR is somehow magnifying this.
Posted by: John T. on Mar. 11 2010,22:05



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Just check this video, I really enjoy it:
< Bell 206 vibration >
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


I clicked on the link. It showed the video but absolutely nothing moved. It was like starring at a photo for a minute or so.

???

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 11 2010,22:08



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
I would also like to have vibrations implemented, and not only when reaching the VNE. I think it would add a lot of realism :)
Just check this video, I really enjoy it:
< Bell 206 vibration >

By the way, thanks a lot again frednaar for your software!

BR
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


OK optional vibration will be there for next release this weekend...
it is actually quite fun and realistic.

bye
Fred



Posted by: dennison on Mar. 12 2010,00:07



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
BR[/quote]
OK optional vibration will be there for next release this weekend...
it is actually quite fun and realistic.

bye
Fred

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi frednaar,

The above is excellent news.

Thank you for this outstanding program.


Bye!

Posted by: aeronauta on Mar. 16 2010,02:12

Hi Fred, one comment I have is in the Flight Data screen I can only see ufrom the top up to Main rotor , as the screen refreshes constantly I cannot see live the last 3 lines neither can I enlarge the window...is this me or something simple??

I am trying a Huey HTR cfg and having problems as the helo tend to hit the tail as soon as collective gets to 60%, I have reviewed most values and I can't figure it out, if I move the cyclic fwd all the way it does not change, only if I move the x CG very far fw!!, which makes me think it is a dimension and weight but cannot findit,,any clues???

edit: running w7/64 FSX Acc and fsuipc 4.6

regards  Jorge.



Posted by: aeronauta on Mar. 16 2010,05:51

update...after reading that the .cfg file has no action in the htr I went to the huey uh1-h aircraft.cfg (nemeth design) and found that the engine type was set to 1 (jet!!??), changed it to 3 (heloTurbine) and Voila!!!  it started to behave a bit better , so much that I then could start to tweak the htr file. now I am getting somewhere...

regards  Jorge

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 16 2010,08:48



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Hi Fred, one comment I have is in the Flight Data screen I can only see ufrom the top up to Main rotor , as the screen refreshes constantly I cannot see live the last 3 lines neither can I enlarge the window...is this me or something simple??

I am trying a Huey HTR cfg and having problems as the helo tend to hit the tail as soon as collective gets to 60%, I have reviewed most values and I can't figure it out, if I move the cyclic fwd all the way it does not change, only if I move the x CG very far fw!!, which makes me think it is a dimension and weight but cannot findit,,any clues???

edit: running w7/64 FSX Acc and fsuipc 4.6

regards  Jorge.

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi Jorge,
this is strange as the aircraft cfg parameter has nothing to do with HTR.... it seems to me it is mostly a Center of gravity issue. Is the center of gravity position below the main rotor?
Have you adjusted the default COG parameter to the empty weight value as per manual ? have you tried with mean aerodynamic chord set to 0 ?

I will be posting a new version of HTR with a more extended manual in the next few days (I am doing a final testing) and I have added a config troubleshooting section.

hope this helps
Fred

Posted by: aeronauta on Mar. 16 2010,10:24

Yeah, thankyou Fred, I know you said that but I have tried averything before I changed the engine type and all changed, I am looking fw to a newer versions as I could not understand the rudder rest parameter  , as I operate the rudder the flight shows on the left from 0 to 100% and nothing on the right, if I go to 50  I can have left and right control ...

will wait for the new version and comment then...I like the program as I am a Dodo 206 fan and would like a huey , but it looks a long way away yet... so this may be as close as I could get...

regards  Jorge   (thankyou for your help)

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 16 2010,13:46



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Yeah, thankyou Fred, I know you said that but I have tried averything before I changed the engine type and all changed, I am looking fw to a newer versions as I could not understand the rudder rest parameter  , as I operate the rudder the flight shows on the left from 0 to 100% and nothing on the right, if I go to 50  I can have left and right control ...

will wait for the new version and comment then...I like the program as I am a Dodo 206 fan and would like a huey , but it looks a long way away yet... so this may be as close as I could get...

regards  Jorge   (thankyou for your help)

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


The rudder in a helicopter and in HTR controls the pitch of the tail rotor blades which goes to 0% where the tail rotor develops no thrust to 100% where it develops the max thrust.

So if you put 0% rotor you will turn by the torque generated by the main rotor, if you put 100% the thrust and therefore torque generated by the tail rotor exceeds the torque of the main rotor and you will yaw in the other direction.

From hover to max forward flight you should ideally have the two torques that sums 0 in order to fly forward, otherwise you will fly sideways (enable the Display velocities on the HTR screen and check the Y or lateral velocity to see what I mean)
Considering most of the users are controlling the rudder by using a joystick and not the pedals, and it can be tiring to keep the joystick in the right position during long times I usually set the rudder middle position to the amount of torque that is necessary to compensate main rotor torque in forward cuise flight. Depending on the helicopter this ranges from 30% to 10%.

If you use the pedals this makes no difference, you'll just have the two feets aligned.

Hope it is clear
bye
Fred

Posted by: aeronauta on Mar. 16 2010,22:14

I see, thankyou for the reply...
although I thought that at cruise speed the wheathervane effect of the tail vertical stabilizer would make the use of rudder unnecesary.

regards  Jorge



Posted by: highside7r on Mar. 16 2010,23:22



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
I see, thankyou for the reply...
although I thought that at cruise speed the wheathervane effect of the tail vertical stabilizer would make the use of rudder unnecesary.

regards  Jorge

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Correct Jorge on the B206. The offset is 5 degrees to the right to reduce the tail rotor thrust requirements in forward flight. Speed, well it's been awhile since my B206 days and I'm sure someone knows the exact number, but I'll go with 90-100 kts.
Posted by: aeronauta on Mar. 18 2010,09:01

Fred after much reading and finding out, I have managed to get a reasonable .cfg file for the Nemeth Huey, all my concerns began as looking at the .cfg for the nemeth it looked as a copy of the default 206....which it almos was, then looking at the .air file my doubts were confirmed, the .air file was an exact copy , included the surface numbers!!!...anyway after rewriting the .cfg and the .air with my measurements and values I think I got it.
One thing that I cannot get is a smooth takeoff ,as I increase collective the helo starts bouncing up/down gently but enough to cause rough or heavy landing. otherwise once past that point it takes off ok, but as I fly from the VC it looks prety harsh!!!. By the way I have the refresh rate at 90  and get still 30FPS .

I think this is the best realism program I have ever find and I think it has immense potential.
One thing I would like better explained is the meanAerodynamicChord, you say start at abaout 1/2 blade lenght and I have calculated it to be 1.91 for the Huey using the MAC formula.
Anothe efffect I found very hard to avoid is the torque in the pitch axis that the Tail rotor imposes...in the Huey the tail roto is very high above the CG and that causes it. Dont know how they go in real life but I have never seen it mentioned.

enough for today...keep up the fantastic work and thankyou again....

Jorge

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 18 2010,13:04



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Fred after much reading and finding out, I have managed to get a reasonable .cfg file for the Nemeth Huey, all my concerns began as looking at the .cfg for the nemeth it looked as a copy of the default 206....which it almos was, then looking at the .air file my doubts were confirmed, the .air file was an exact copy , included the surface numbers!!!...anyway after rewriting the .cfg and the .air with my measurements and values I think I got it.
One thing that I cannot get is a smooth takeoff ,as I increase collective the helo starts bouncing up/down gently but enough to cause rough or heavy landing. otherwise once past that point it takes off ok, but as I fly from the VC it looks prety harsh!!!. By the way I have the refresh rate at 90  and get still 30FPS .

I think this is the best realism program I have ever find and I think it has immense potential.
One thing I would like better explained is the meanAerodynamicChord, you say start at abaout 1/2 blade lenght and I have calculated it to be 1.91 for the Huey using the MAC formula.
Anothe efffect I found very hard to avoid is the torque in the pitch axis that the Tail rotor imposes...in the Huey the tail roto is very high above the CG and that causes it. Dont know how they go in real life but I have never seen it mentioned.

enough for today...keep up the fantastic work and thankyou again....

Jorge
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Thank you Jorge,

regarding the bouncing, this is possibly the same issue  I had with the EH 101. In the Robinson type helicopters in FSX MS cheats the vertical velocity by forcing an uplift which I cannot control.

I suggest you increase the main rotor maxCollective until you take off before MS will. Also there is a small glitch in the main rotor above ground height that will be fixed in the new version.

The refresh rate, is the HTR refresh rate not the FSX refresh rate, use it to keep both of them in synch. I usually set the HTR refrest rate a few units below FSX as it avoids stuttering . So in your case I would use around 25.

Also the stuttering problem for Robinson type helicopters (EH101 and Robinson) should be largely improved in the new version (I understood why, another MS cheat...)

I hope to release the new version this weekend, the fact is I keep on receiving feedbacks (most of them luckily positive) and try to add things to the simulation...I think I have to give a final polish and release....

Thanks for your feedback!
Fred

Posted by: mos on Mar. 18 2010,18:56

Hi Fred !
Take your time, of-course we all are looking forward to ...., what you already have done (a masterpiece) and now a update that's take care of the few upstart problems, I already use your program a lot, and the patch (Zip) "sundog" have done/recovered, with your program for the Bell 412 EP, shows what your program can do, already, so keep cool, we are all, looking forward.
I think I speak for "many" when I say, - You have done a lot to FSX "HELLI" flying - already, (and you have writing something about (if I remember right) that it might, could be converted to clipped wing, but that's another story (maybe I have started a "Lavinia" now!).
But you get the credit, great program already, thank you, a lot.
MOS

Posted by: aeronauta on Mar. 19 2010,06:51

Well here it is,  I have made a new .air and a new .cfg for the UH1-1h and a dhtr_dynamics file to go with them, please if you own the Nemeth Design Huey 1h ( included the update and the patch), go to ...////rotorcraft\ND_uh1h folder and rename the original .cfg and .air files to .airoriginal and .cfgoriginal,  then unzip and  copy the three files in the zip into this folder.
Start FSX go to select aircraft and select Huey 1h no guns, fly the helo normally to make sure all still works OK with the new .cfg and .air (if you have fown it much before you may notice some diff) , if all is OK, now start HTR, in the HTR window set the refresh to a number a bit below your FPS (as fred sugested) and your realism to 50 to star (I use 100%) .

Fly, you will have to be very gentle this is a big beast and must be hadled with care...

here is the link to the files < Huey HTR files >

please test and report as much as possible.
regards  Jorge

Posted by: mos on Mar. 19 2010,08:30

Hi Jorge!
"Well here it is,...new .cfg for the UH1-1h ...Nemeth Design "

Thank you, unfortunately I don't have the Nemeth Design  UH1-1h

I wanted to ask, haw is  the "Nemeth UH1 " compared to, let us say the CERA Bell 212 the CERA Bell 412 and DODO 206 ?

Mos

Posted by: aeronauta on Mar. 19 2010,08:51

No different. it is a nice helo outside but the flight model was like the defaults...

single engine and a bit smaller than the 412 and larger than the 206.

If you have any other huey model use the files I sent and try it out, it may work...

Jorge

ps nothing to do with the Dodo.



Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 22 2010,10:35

Hi,
I have uploaded HTR version 1.02 in the files section, here's a direct link to download:

< HTR VERSION 1.02 >

to use just extract to your current HTR directory.

You can also install this release directly without the previous version of HTR. Also I have taken out the Canadian Transportation Helicopter Courses for a smaller download (I left a link in the manual).

The Manual has been updated and also all the standard profiles.

The new features include:
- reviewed config file for the EH 101 (much improved I believe) and Robinson.
-I have added FSUIPC version check to avoid running with wrong version of FSUIPC.
- HTR checks if it is already running to avoid multiple launches.
- largely resolved the stuttering issue on Robinson type Helicopters
- Lateral COG (left right center of gravity) position now affects center of gravity displacement.
- Tail rotor hit small error fixed.
- FS9 open config not working if the directory was uppercase, now works lower case.
- added a new parameter (mainRotorHeight) for rotor height to fix a small ground effect bug.
-added a new parameter for ground yaw friction (GroundYawFriction) to fix the light on skids issue
- added vibrations effect for more realism
- basic recording replaying records the pilot input and model velocities, this should allow to make small HTR tutorials, maybe running a synchronized voice track
- added random failures as requested
- added vibrations as requested
- added auto hover mode, by clicking twice on trim button, works better on larger helicopters.
- revised manual with configuration troubleshooting


Existing existing configurations should add the following parameters, which otherwise will be set by default:
GroundYawFriction = sets the amount of yaw friction while grounded, adjsust to have helicopter yaw when light on skids .

mainRotorHeight = set the main rotor height from ground in feet, to have a more precise ground effect.

vibrationLevel = affects vibration size for when the vibration effect is on for those who like it... Vibration frequency is proportional to the update value of the main HTR window.

For those having problems running HTR please create a debug recording (see the manual) zip it and send it to the email adress you can find in the manual.

Enjoy
Fred



Posted by: jordan on Mar. 22 2010,10:44

That's great news Fred!

For now, I'll add it right to the library, but in the next few days I'll figure out the best way to make sure that HTR gets the attention that it deserves at Hovercontrol.

Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 22 2010,10:52



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
That's great news Fred!

For now, I'll add it right to the library, but in the next few days I'll figure out the best way to make sure that HTR gets the attention that it deserves at Hovercontrol.

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Thank you Jordan,
that would be great ! let me know if you need anything.

Also please let me know when it's online so I update the links on the previous post and on the first post of this thread.



Bye
fred

Posted by: jordan on Mar. 22 2010,11:15

Its up now.
Posted by: Leorstef on Mar. 22 2010,16:39

Took some short hops in all 3 of the default FSX helicopters this morning.
HTR was already good, but 1.2 is much better, Fred!
Really stable on my system now, and all of the oddities I had noted before are gone.
Thank you for all of the hard work Sir! :salute:



Posted by: jordan on Mar. 24 2010,01:13

Moved to dedicated forum.
Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 24 2010,08:23



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Moved to dedicated forum.
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Thank you Jordan!
Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 24 2010,08:31



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Well here it is,  I have made a new .air and a new .cfg for the UH1-1h and a dhtr_dynamics file to go with them, please if you own the Nemeth Design Huey 1h ( included the update and the patch), go to ...////rotorcraft\ND_uh1h folder and rename the original .cfg and .air files to .airoriginal and .cfgoriginal,  then unzip and  copy the three files in the zip into this folder.
Start FSX go to select aircraft and select Huey 1h no guns, fly the helo normally to make sure all still works OK with the new .cfg and .air (if you have fown it much before you may notice some diff) , if all is OK, now start HTR, in the HTR window set the refresh to a number a bit below your FPS (as fred sugested) and your realism to 50 to star (I use 100%) .

Fly, you will have to be very gentle this is a big beast and must be hadled with care...

here is the link to the files < Huey HTR files >

please test and report as much as possible.
regards  Jorge
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi Jorge,

I checked your profile last night I wanted to understand the aircraft.cfg issue. I managed to have the model fly without changing any original files.

I took the liberty to change some values by adding the new parameters and correcting some values:

-I moved the COG a little back to have a slight nose up attitude on hovering see this < huey video >

- I decreased the horizontal stab lift to have a correct attitude in forward flight

- I gave more tail rotor authority by increasing the max collective

- I gave less collective the main rotor by decreasing the max collective and some more cyclic authority by increasing the maxcyclic.

here's the link to the download
< HUEY CONFIG >

let me know what you think.

bye
Fred

Posted by: Shawn on Mar. 24 2010,16:17

Hello Fred

I just wanted to say thank you for such a fantactic bit of software. I've only recently installed HTR and flown with it in FS9 and it's simply amazing. You've taken a huge step forward with helicopter flight simulation and then gave it away for free, very nice work.  :)

Posted by: Seahawk72s on Mar. 24 2010,17:55

It looks like the file is missing..?
Posted by: Cap Carvalho on Mar. 24 2010,18:06

Great job, the 1.0 version is already a great improve to the flight, thanks, Fred.
But now I can't find it in the library and the link says file is missing.

Posted by: jordan on Mar. 24 2010,19:09

My bad on the missing files.  I am creating a specific file section just for HTR.  I will get things sorted out and correct the links as soon as I can.  Thanks.
Posted by: Bell209 on Mar. 26 2010,11:37

Great work, mate! When will the twin-engine version be available?
Posted by: frednaar on Mar. 26 2010,18:48



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
Great work, mate! When will the twin-engine version be available?
---------------------QUOTE-------------------


Hi,
multi engine management is already available, you can fail individual engines through the failure system and you will see a drop in available power. So you can try One Engine Inoperative flight for multi engines helicopters.

If you mean twin rotor, tandem or coaxial, such as the Chinook ot Kamov type,I was planning to release some more configurations for standard helicopters for a while and then start working at the new version that will support them after that, to release say about june.

Bye
Fred

Posted by: mos on Mar. 26 2010,23:04

Hi "sundog" !
Something new about "Cera 412EP dynamics .cfg.... "
and new patch ?, I have translated the 1.0 to the 1.02, but that don't work very well (your "old" "dynamics .cfg....")  Bell_412_EP_v1.05.zip )) work's better, if looking away from ground level strange- behavior, and "hi fly" (by the way the best until now).

mos

Posted by: sundog on Mar. 27 2010,02:03

Here you go, an updated 412 EP profile!!

< http://www.mediafire.com/?mtyvzizjwcb >

Posted by: mos on Mar. 27 2010,16:37

Thank you sondog, but I'm glad that I didn't skipped. your 1.05Zip and the  HTR version 1.0. I still think, that the Bell 412 EP, works best there, but thank you anyway.
Posted by: aeronauta on Mar. 30 2010,06:22

thankyou Fred, I have tryed and seems to behave alot better, thankyou   Jorge
Posted by: smokinbowl on April 12 2010,08:28

what should the FS2004 Realism setting be when using this program? I'm really confused, as there are now two realism sliders and they both influence the handling

Flies better anyway, great program Fred!

Posted by: frednaar on April 12 2010,17:01



---------------------QUOTE BEGIN-------------------
what should the FS2004 Realism setting be when using this program? I'm really confused, as there are now two realism sliders and they both influence the handling

Flies better anyway, great program Fred!

---------------------QUOTE-------------------


hi,
use the HTR realism slider, the FS2004 realism slider is not used by HTR.

Also id you use FS2004 download version 1.03 as it fixes several issues
bye

Fred

Posted by: nicolestadt on Oct. 01 2012,08:03

Advantageous content that you have posted.So exciting and exhilarating to getting on.

< www.centralheli.ch >



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