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Topic: Pedal issue< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
severniae
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Posted: Sep. 15 2016,23:42

Hi,

I initially put a topic in the general forum, thinking that my issue was just not knowing the behavour of helicopters, but I think I've got an issue somewhere and I think it's pedal related.

With pedal sensitivity set to 100, if I display velocities, the pedal readout constantly reads 14%, if i input full left pedal, it shows 100%, full right, and it shows 0.

I've checked the output from FSUIPC and it looks correct, but don't know if there is some mismatch between the two or something.

Is anyone able to help me out?

Thanks,
James
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severniae
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Posted: Sep. 16 2016,15:12

Nobody replied yet.. but I've done a little testing.

I think the behavior is right from what I've read on this forum, there is meant to be more left turn authority than right. However, it seems that my pedal sensivity is wrong somewhere.

If I look at the axis in FSUIPC, it's showing values that seem correct, and shows the full range of movement. However, when I look in HTR, if I move the pedal left, it quickly goes from 14% to 100%. If I move it to the right, in the first quarter of the pedal's travel, it goes from 14% to 0%, however for the other 3 quarters of travel there is no change at all.. how do I get it working properly?

Thanks..
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PhantomTweak
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Posted: Sep. 16 2016,18:59

I don't have the Cera 222 you mentioned in your post in the General forum, being a broke SOB. Having said that, looking at the description you give, is it possible your controller, whatever it may be, isn't properly calibrated?
I've seen controllers loose their calibration when starting the sim, for whatever reason. Especially with the payware version of FSUIPC. Did you make sure you don't have some odd controller profile in FSUIPC affecting the rudder control in HTR?
Did you re-calibrate your controller after starting the sim, but before going flying? Are you sure you have the latest and greatest HTR profile for that particular bird, and that HTR is, in fact, using it?
I am no expert at HTR, by any stretch, but these are things I have seen mentioned for others with these problems. I have never flown a helicopter IRL either. I have read in various how-to articles about helicopters that they turn much easier on way than the other, due to the torque of the main rotor. Perhaps the HTR profile is "simulating" this effect? Maybe the chopper it's self is simulating this effect in the aircraft.cfg or .air file, and HTR is making it more-so?
Again, maybe FSUIPC has a profile running you installed, or is included somehow, that is affecting your controller's rudder "throw"?
Sorry, those are all I can think of. People WILL respond to your questions in these forums, you just have to be patient. People around here spend more time flying than typing :)
Good luck!
Pat&#9786;

PS: There is a great article you might want to read. it can be found here: TAIL Rotors


Edited by PhantomTweak on Sep. 16 2016,19:10

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severniae
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Posted: Sep. 16 2016,22:07

Hi Phantom,

Thanks for the advice, I don't think it's a calibration issue on the pedals, but I'll check anyway just in case.

It's interesting in the other thread it was mentioned that I should be seeing a tendency to want to go easier to the right instead of left... really odd. I'll keep plugging away at the issue and see if I can test anything else to see whats up..

Edit - It looks like the pedals % never goes into a negative value, it just seems to sit in a positive value, whereas the other controllers go from 100% positive to -100% negative..

Also tried calibration, and using another hardware device for the pedals, still no joy :(

Edit2: Tried the same setup in FSX (I usually use P3D) to see if this was the issue, same. Tried different versions of FSUIPC and HTR, same. I'm wondering if what I'm seeing is actually how it's supposed to work (within the limitations of FSX). Just seems strange that a US chopper is turning very fast to the left, but very little right pedal authority. Also, at speed, the left pedal remails very effective (almost too effective) but the right pedal does almost nothing....I'll keep plugging away at it and see what else I can find...


Edited by severniae on Sep. 17 2016,01:11
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PhantomTweak
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Posted: Sep. 17 2016,05:32

For what it's worth, I just tested my joystick's calibration. The two axes you can move the stick in, fore-aft, left-right, are both -100% to +100%. The Rudder, or twist grip of the stick, is 0% to 100%. This appears to be a normal method for controllers to use for rudders. IE, at "rest" or centered, it is at 50% throw, looking at the controller, unlike the other two axes, which are at 0% when at rest.
I suspect your pedals are, therefore, functioning perfectly normally. SO, failing that it is a physical, controller, or controller/sim interface problem, I suspect you need to A) accept it for what it is, and learn to live with it that way, or B) tweak the .air file, aircraft.cfg, or HTR profile settings for the tail rotor until the helicopter flies how you either want and expect, or as you think it should.
You can also look for some sort of flight instruction or ground school regarding how the B-222 flies, particularly how the rudder affects the bird. Google could be your friend on that :)
Have you had a chance to glance over that article I linked before? It is great info on tail rotors.
Alternatively, you can look through this area of the forums for either advice on this helicopter, or some other profiles that may be more to your liking.
Not super-duper helpful, I know. Sorry. I do wish I could do better. I am not a FI, nor an HTR guru though...
Pat


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frednaar
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Posted: Sep. 19 2016,08:54

the 14% is actually the restpedals value in the config files which is added to the control input by HTR.

you can set it to 0 in the config and it will work as you expect.

This value is used expecially when you use the yaw control of your joystick to fly (vs pedals) so that when you are cruising you do not have to keep yawing the joystick in order to have a correct attitude...

Fred


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severniae
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Posted: Sep. 19 2016,09:10

Hi Fred, thanks for that.

So if I set it to 0 - will right pedal now go into the negative range? Because on previous tests I've done 0 is the lowest displayed value for the rudder pedals, no matter how far right I push them, they don't go lower than 0%...
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PhantomTweak
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Posted: Sep. 19 2016,19:08

Quote
So if I set it to 0 - will right pedal now go into the negative range? Because on previous tests I've done 0 is the lowest displayed value for the rudder pedals, no matter how far right I push them, they don't go lower than 0%...

I am not sure, but I think we're talking apples and oranges here. Fred, who is a super-genius when it comes to HTR, btw, was talking about the HTR .cfg settings for the 222, where-as I believe, although I may well be wrong, that you're looking at your controller's calibration settings. The controller's rudder goes from 0% to 100%. Period. How that affects the helicopter with HTR acting as an interface is another thing. By setting the HTR .cfg restpedals setting to 0% vice 14% (the default), it will make the tail rotor hold the helicopter steady in yaw when at cruise speed, instead of at the hover. No twist grip input required. Slow down, hover, etc, it will require input from the twist grip ( eg. rudder pedals) to hold a steady heading.
When there is no input from you to the twist grip, it is still at 50% in it's calibration setting, but how it affects the tailrotor has changed. It makes for, when changing the restpedals setting, a different tail rotor amount of thrust when the input from the twist grip is at 50%, or the center, rest, position. As though you took your feet off the pedals, essentially.
This is a huge boon to those of us who fly long distances using a joystick. Not being a real helicopter pilot myself, I can't speak to how "realistic" this is, but it sure is nice to be able to relieve you from the need to hold the grip twisted against it's spring pressure.
I strongly suggest reading through, at least once, the documentation that came with HTR. It has a ton of super good-to-know information on the effects different settings in the various .cfg files. And what effect on the helicopter the different settings will have when you vary them, up or down. Like the effects of the restpedals setting, just for example  :;):
Is that all about as clear as mud?   :laugh:
I hope it helps a little bit, anyway.
Pat


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severniae
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Posted: Sep. 19 2016,19:52

Ok so just tried Fred'suggestion results are -

I get lots of left pedal authority, zero right pedal....

The indicator when 'show velocities' is enabled shows 0%, even when during full right pedal input, and shows 100% with full left pedal...
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PhantomTweak
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Posted: Sep. 19 2016,22:17

Ok, lets try playing with the HTR configuration file for the 222 that you're using. Naturally, make a back-up of ANY file before you make ANY changes to it. You will more than likely need it as you go.
Make sure you use Notepad (free with almost all Windows editions) or Notepad++, a freeware program easily found on the net with Google or Bing. Never use a word processor, as they add symbols that make the files unusable to HTR or FSX.
I apologize if you already know all this good stuff. I'd rather give too much info than not enough.  :)
Here's some quotes from the documentaion:
Quote
- if you have too much or not enough lift, adjust the rotor 1 maxCollective and check radius
- if you don’t have enough pedals authority do the same for the Rotor2, adjust RPM if unsure

That's the tail rotor RPM.
Also:
Quote
Those are new Parameters that did not exist in the previous versions, in case they are not present the default values will be applied. Just insert at the end of the section indicated in brackets.
[Rotor2]
Mincollective =-5 this will set reverse thrust on the tail rotor set between -1 and -5

Again, all this involves the HTR config file unless otherwise noted.
Quote
Don’t have enough tail rotor power to counter torque: adjust the maxcollective of the tail rotor, is the tail rotor blades radius correct ? is the position correct ? is the angle correct (90 degrees vs -90 degrees), is the rotor RPM correct. Do not change the bladeDragCF of the rotors you are in for trouble…

That sounds like it's right up your alley...
Finally, here's another parameter, mentioned by Fred in his post. Maybe it's just the thing.
Quote
pedalsRestPcent =14 neutral pedals position when joystick is centered, set to a value which will bring lateral velocity to 0 at cruise speed.


A small side note: Only adjust ONE parmeter at a time, then test it carefully.
Remember, you can change HTR config parameters "on the fly" as it were. Just pause the sim, change the parameter, save the config file, reload it in HTR and resume flight. Or, what I do: land, pause, make your change, reload the HTR config file, unpause and take off again. It's a lot easier to me that way, as everything starts at a "zero point" for the helicopter and HTR, the joystick, everything.

We WILL get this problem licked, you wait and see!  :D
Pat


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Chiloquin, Or
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severniae
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Posted: Sep. 19 2016,23:28

Hehe thanks Pat!

Little late here so shall give a try tomorrow and report on my progress...
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frednaar
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Posted: Sep. 20 2016,16:36

thanks Pat for the reply... all you mentioned is spot on!
I shall say you know HTR better than me now  :)


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PhantomTweak
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Posted: Sep. 20 2016,19:15

Quote (frednaar @ Sep. 20 2016,08:36)
thanks Pat for the reply... all you mentioned is spot on!
I shall say you know HTR better than me now  :)

Oh, I would never claim to know HTR better than the man who created it! I just read. Alot  :laugh:
Thank you for the compliment though. It's a real confidence booster!
Pat


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Fly high, far, and free. Always!
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G2Novice
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Posted: Oct. 23 2017,19:04

I was wondering if this query by severniae was resolved?

I have exactly the same problem with my rudder pedals and have followed the advice here, but I'm struggling to find a solution. I 'm hoping I've come to the right place for some help?

In FSUIPC my rudder pedals show 16380 full left pedal and -16380 full right pedal. Zero in the centre.

In HTR the indicator for pedals only changes using the left pedal?

When the pedals are centred it shows 000% and full left pedal shows 100%. Moving the right pedal does nothing? I was expecting it to go negative?  

I'd be grateful for any advice on what I'm doing wrong. I'm using HTR 1.6 and FSUIPC 4.971 (Registered).

Thanks in advance.
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Wangler
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Posted: Sep. 01 2018,15:01

I can confirm that HTR 1.62 and FSUIPC 5.14 have this right rudder issue.  AxesWrongRange=Yes in FSUIPC5.ini does NOT fix the issue.

I have no right rudder at all in HTR.
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Wangler
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Posted: Sep. 01 2018,20:15

After further testing, my solution for the pedal issue was to adjust the offset value as if assuming we have half the range.  So, if the restpedal setting is 14%, which assumes the range is +100 to -100, that really means that the restpedal is at 57% of the full range, i.e., 57% from full right pedal input.

If we have an available range of +100 to 0, change restpedal to 57, and change pedal sensitivity to 200 should end up being the same.  Iseemed to get better results with pedal autotrim off.

For a later HTR profile for the Cera Bell 412, restpedal was set at 60%, which seems to indicate the profile was taking this into account.

That is the best fix I can find with my limited knowledge.
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