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Topic: Generic/huey pit wip< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Trigen
(HC400TR)
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Posted: Jan. 04 2017,09:34

Hi there

After thinking about it and being on and off simming the last few years things have finally managed to come close to completion.

Now i got a ms ffb2 with a warthog handle, its dampened for a better feel. Got a working cyclic with throttle and more switches to be hooked up. Just finished my prototype anti torque pedals!

Later i hope to change the Warthog handle to a plastic one so i can use a proper shaft. I also want to fix the pedals in metal but these will do for now. Everything needs to be painted too and... cable management!

here are some pics


[






Edited by Trigen on Jan. 04 2017,09:38
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Trigen
(HC400TR)
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Posted: Jan. 04 2017,10:49

Got a couple of questions :)

How would one best describe the feel of the cyclic, collective and pedals?
Are they hard, very soft? Range of motion, i understand the Huey has a lot of deflection compared to more modern ones?

What are the dimensions for the Huey pedals?
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Manilow
(HC225MA)
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Posted: Jan. 07 2017,09:23

I like to see another who has the ability to just rip open a stick and think How can I improve this...


Be interesting to see how it develops.

Andy


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Andy Walker
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Shawn
(HC356SH)
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Posted: Jan. 11 2017,18:51

Quote (Trigen @ Jan. 04 2017,10:49)
Got a couple of questions :)

How would one best describe the feel of the cyclic, collective and pedals?
Are they hard, very soft? Range of motion, i understand the Huey has a lot of deflection compared to more modern ones?

What are the dimensions for the Huey pedals?

I have a few hours of stick time in a variety of helicopters and as you suggested it varies quite a bit from aircraft to aircraft. I would have to say that most I have tried had a bit of a hydraulic resistance feel in addition to some vibration and Gyroscopic feel? I have tried the same dampers as the ones in your pictures. Do you notice much stiction with them? I didn't like the sticky feel when you start to move the plunger. I was thinking about pulling one apart and trying some high quality hydraulic fluid to see if that might reduce the stiction a bit.

Cheers
Shawn
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Rogue Trooper
(HC020RO)
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Joined: May 2007
Posted: Jan. 27 2017,04:11

Hi Trigen,
I've found in the helicopters I've flown that in general the lightest control to move is the pedals with only the sense your moving linkages. The cyclic is a little heavier and then the collective heavier again. Obviously if your mimicking a hydraulically assisted system the forces lessen some what once the system is working. From further investigation I've found that the 206 hydraulic  system doesn't transfer any feedback forces to the controls. I'm not sure about the 204/205.
I use NHK dampers similar to yours. I'm away from home so can't check the settings but I believe I have the pedals at only 20 lbs resistance and the cyclic lateral movement at 40-60 with fire and aft movement 60-80. The cyclic fore and aft also has a counter weight mounted at the end of a 12" bar that extends to the rear  to prevent the cyclic from falling forward. The collective has the highest with about 100 lbs. this also adds a bit more friction so the lever doesn't drop by itself when playing with the radios. I should note that the way my controls are set up there is quite a bit of mechanical advantage so the forces felt are a lot less. Re Shawn note about the stickion', the dampers seem to work best if their attachment point to the axis is mounted to an extension plate that allows the damper to use more of its travel. Also for the  first flight of the day I do a longer, more aggressive and rapid freedom of movement check. I  move all axis simultaneously to their end stops back and forth. This frees up the dampers a little as the hydraulic fluid is a bit warmer.

I haven't flown a Huey so I'm not familiar with the control resistances with hydraulics on. The throttle is connected to a circular cam wheel with a physical detent in it that is your idle lock position. When you press the idle release on the collective a solenoid energises allowing the throttle to be closed fully. When opening the throttle the solenoid is spring loaded so once the detent is reached it locks down.
Shawn was also working on some circular dampers so they might be an option too.
Try to keep the tolerances as tight as you can and use press fit bearings anywhere you can for a more realistic feel.

Good luck with it all.

Cheers,
Stuart
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Trigen
(HC400TR)
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Posted: Feb. 03 2017,19:31

Quote (Shawn @ Jan. 11 2017,18:51)
Quote (Trigen @ Jan. 04 2017,10:49)
Got a couple of questions :)

How would one best describe the feel of the cyclic, collective and pedals?
Are they hard, very soft? Range of motion, i understand the Huey has a lot of deflection compared to more modern ones?

What are the dimensions for the Huey pedals?

I have a few hours of stick time in a variety of helicopters and as you suggested it varies quite a bit from aircraft to aircraft. I would have to say that most I have tried had a bit of a hydraulic resistance feel in addition to some vibration and Gyroscopic feel? I have tried the same dampers as the ones in your pictures. Do you notice much stiction with them? I didn't like the sticky feel when you start to move the plunger. I was thinking about pulling one apart and trying some high quality hydraulic fluid to see if that might reduce the stiction a bit.

Cheers
Shawn

Thank you for the reply. The hydraulic i can probably fix but the gyro feel will be worse. For the dampers i actually ended up drilling both ends almost completely open so there's virtually no drag on them. I then added some Nyogel 767A Grease tio the inside piston/rubber ring. Its actually a damping grease and i find the feel to be very good and much easier to deal with. It also has 0 stick and is overall an amazing grease i highly recommend.

On the pedals ive tried the same but its a little to light on friction but adding another with the grease will be quite nice there i believe. Im currently rebuilding them with proper metal parts.

Here's a demo on the grease: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59F9qUDNwnQ
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Trigen
(HC400TR)
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Posted: Feb. 03 2017,19:43

Quote (Rogue Trooper @ Jan. 27 2017,04:11)
Hi Trigen,
I've found in the helicopters I've flown that in general the lightest control to move is the pedals with only the sense your moving linkages. The cyclic is a little heavier and then the collective heavier again. Obviously if your mimicking a hydraulically assisted system the forces lessen some what once the system is working. From further investigation I've found that the 206 hydraulic  system doesn't transfer any feedback forces to the controls. I'm not sure about the 204/205.
I use NHK dampers similar to yours. I'm away from home so can't check the settings but I believe I have the pedals at only 20 lbs resistance and the cyclic lateral movement at 40-60 with fire and aft movement 60-80. The cyclic fore and aft also has a counter weight mounted at the end of a 12" bar that extends to the rear  to prevent the cyclic from falling forward. The collective has the highest with about 100 lbs. this also adds a bit more friction so the lever doesn't drop by itself when playing with the radios. I should note that the way my controls are set up there is quite a bit of mechanical advantage so the forces felt are a lot less. Re Shawn note about the stickion', the dampers seem to work best if their attachment point to the axis is mounted to an extension plate that allows the damper to use more of its travel. Also for the  first flight of the day I do a longer, more aggressive and rapid freedom of movement check. I  move all axis simultaneously to their end stops back and forth. This frees up the dampers a little as the hydraulic fluid is a bit warmer.

I haven't flown a Huey so I'm not familiar with the control resistances with hydraulics on. The throttle is connected to a circular cam wheel with a physical detent in it that is your idle lock position. When you press the idle release on the collective a solenoid energises allowing the throttle to be closed fully. When opening the throttle the solenoid is spring loaded so once the detent is reached it locks down.
Shawn was also working on some circular dampers so they might be an option too.
Try to keep the tolerances as tight as you can and use press fit bearings anywhere you can for a more realistic feel.

Good luck with it all.

Cheers,
Stuart

Thank you that's very helpful.

Im experimenting a bit with the damper setup on the cyclic, it uses aprox the full range but its a bit tricky to the a 100% sturdy mounting setup. really need a much better base and thicker metal to get it perfect. I used to work at a mechanical workshop so ill be asking them if i cant come there and borrow their tools once i got the design down. Most importantly i need a light grip so i can use a proper shaft.

Its the same with the collective. right now im waiting for some frames with bearings in the so i can install it properly with a pressed shaft, the X52 setup just isnt good so ive made a temporary mount with a shaft trough the end.  Its currently set up with a counterweight for balance but needs a proper friction system without sticking.
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Trigen
(HC400TR)
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Posted: Feb. 03 2017,19:45

Oh and ive upgraded to the Rift over the triple screen and fly the Huey 1-3 hours every morning. Its a blast and realistic controls are more important than ever :)
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